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Finance Committee — 08/04/2021 Page 13

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

So that particular change order was for some duct work that needed for our air handler to be moved and
reconstructed considering that we put up a wall now, and you have desks areas, and the room has been split
into two. We had to relocate some duct work for our air flow.

Alderwoman Lu

Would you bear with me and just tell me what it is that you held up so | can...

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

Sure. It was attached to the e-mail that | sent you this afternoon when you requested more information and
this is the change order log.

Alderwoman Lu
What was the file called, do you know?

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

| believe it was the last one in the e-mails attached to the e-mails that | sent out and I’m happy to provide this
to anybody. It’s just a list. If you look on my Memo, you see that there's a description and an amount. That's
what Alderwoman Lou is speaking to. It matches the same description that is on this from DL King.
Alderwoman Lu

So I'm sorry is that something we all received or you sent it to me in response to my request?

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

| sent it to you. | sent DL King’s to you in response to your request.
Alderwoman Lu
Last e-mail you sent to me. Okay. Is that right?

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

No, the first one.
Alderwoman Lu
Well, okay.

Mayor Donchess

But she's saying that the same information is part of the Memo of July 11th. It's just that the colored exhibit
that Ms. Kleiner sent to you has red and green colors but the same information is presented in the Memo that's
part of the agenda.

Alderwoman Lu

Okay. So my question is didn't the contract include duct work? So why are we - | mean didn't they bid on this
particular on this duct work or is this a change to the plans?

Board of Aldermen — 12/26/17 Page 6

REMARKS BY THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN

Alderman O’Brien

First, I’d like to mention my appreciation for serving with our Aldermen who won't be coming back for the next
term. Being the first part of my term, it was a pleasure working with you all and | wish you the best of luck in
your endeavors.

Second to that, | received a lot of talk from constituents dealing with the storm. There was a comment made
earlier in Finance by Alderman Clemens. | will speak to the Mayor about it, but | do have the opinion, too, that it
was a very severe ice storm; it was tough. | would like to also give credit to the men and women who did get
out there and try to keep our streets open, with the understanding of the harsh conditions that were out there
as well. But | do understand our constituents; they do have the right and to let us Know when things aren’t
appropriate. That's how we fix the solution.

Alderwoman Melizzi-Golja

Regarding the storm, | know that in Ward 8 the issues of keeping the hills clean and safe is always a top
priority, and | would like to thank the members of DPW for their work. They were out de-icing the roads and
salting and sanding, and it was appreciated.

And for those on the Board who will not be returning, | look forward to seeing you in the community and thank
you for your efforts with reference towards moving the city forward. Happy New Year.

Alderman Caron

| would like to wish good luck to our Aldermen who are outgoing, and welcome the new members in a couple
of weeks. To that, just to remind you that the inauguration is January 7 at Nashua High School North at
noontime.

| also have a comment about the plowing. | Know that they were very busy, because they finished with the ice
storm and then you had the big storm on Christmas day, but one suggestion would be to make sure that the
community shed that has the salt and sand is properly maintained. They ran out and my husband was handing
out the little bit of salt and sand that he had picked up that morning. That’s just a reminder, because it was
quite icy on Sunday for the community at large.

And last, but not least, | wish you all a Happy New Year.
Alderman Dowd

Best of luck to all of the Aldermen who won't be here in the next term; it’s been a pleasure serving with you.
Happy New Year to everyone.

| also wanted to just shout out to the police and fire departments who went above and beyond helping the
citizens of Nashua, and worked far beyond their normal duties. It shows a lot of both groups.

Alderman Cookson

| just want to take a moment to express my thanks and appreciation to the constituents of Nashua who have
honored me with being a member of the Board of Aldermen for 10 of the past 12 years. | also wanted to thank
those members of the Board of Aldermen, the current and past members that I’ve had the honor to serve with.
I’ve served with some fabulous Aldermen and I’ve learned a lot from them. | hope that we’re able to continue in
the future working together with one another; we are listening to all constituents. And | wish everyone a Happy
New Year.

Finance Committee — 08/04/2021 Page 14

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

Excellent question. Yes so they did. There was some work done and there was a changed the plan. So once
we sat with the architect and we figured out how many spaces the City Clerk need, how many desks, and then
she asked for a standing desk as well. There was some changes made to that wall and the dimensions of that
wall which created the changed the duct work.

Alderwoman Lu

But did you sit with the engineer before you put out the bid or after you actually contracted with DL King? | just
am trying to understand.

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

The Architect Dennis Myers actually constructed the bid with us and the RFP that we put out to bid. So it was
Dennis Myers plans that were in the bid that was put out with the RFP. That was changed throughout the
process of the project as things came up. Sometimes those plans needed to be altered.

Alderwoman Lu

Okay. So this included an alteration. So and what about reworking the countertop in the Clerk's office? Why
did that have to be done?

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

So once we changed that desk area for the addition of the standing desk in the City Clerk's area, the counter
had already been ordered per the original plans and that needed to be reworked, which involved them cutting it
to a different specification.

Alderwoman Lu

Okay and the changes to the clerk’s main entrance?

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

The changes to the main entrance was actually a what we considered a better fit once we looked at the air flow
that was going through the City clerk's office. There was some concern. The original plans had a door being
put in the brick between the two sliding doors at the Elm Street entrance. The original plans called for a door
being added there. Once we looked at the building and the changes that were being made to that wall, we
determined that that may create too much cold air flow into that office. So the architect and the mechanical
engineer actually suggested that we open up the entrance that currently existed, which was a single door and
make that a double door with an in and an out. So that was changed as well.

Alderwoman Lu

Okay. So may | follow up?
Mayor Donchess

Yes.

Alderwoman Lu

| read in the original RFP and the original — hmm | can't think of what they're called — that well, did we change
our plans also for the booster for the panel - the electric panel? Were changes made to that or...

Finance Committee — 08/04/2021 Page 15

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

We did.
Alderwoman Lu
Changes there too. Okay.

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

So Mayor Donchess. There were some additional fire suppression and some fire alarm apparatus that were
added to the plan after working with the Fire Marshal. We had to add those to the City Clerk's area. There
were some also added to Motor Vehicles. The City Clerk area additions require that electrical panel to have a
booster in order to fit the supply.

Alderwoman Lu

| just, you know, | have to ask how we didn't we couldn't predict that but | don't know how that's done. So may
| follow up?

Mayor Donchess

Yes.

Alderwoman Lu

I'm just wondering. | know we're not voting on this because it's under $25,000, | assume.
Mayor Donchess

Yes.

Alderwoman Lu

But is it - it doesn't seem — okay - granted there is a reduction because did somebody not get plexiglass
barriers on their desks or did...?

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

That is correct. So the changes that were made to the specifications for the City Clerk's area required less
plexiglass needed. There was also less plexiglass needed in Assessing earlier on. | do, | do Alderwoman Lu
understand | think where you're coming from. Unfortunately | have to kind of caution when you open up a
building of this age, there are things that you are going to find that no architect or no engineer could have
predicted. We found those when we did this Chamber and we found those throughout this project. I'll give you
a for instance. It's one of the earlier change orders. When we opened the wall in Assessing between the
Assessing Office and the main hallway, we realized that's a fire rated wall. We realized those pipes and up
above in the ceiling had not been protected and had to now look to - Alderman O’Brien who knows more about
this than | do - they had not been insulated properly with fire rated protection. We can't move forward at that
point. We have to complete that even though that may not have been done originally correctly. So with a
building of this age you're going to find those things and we had an excellent architect that sat with us through
every meeting of this project and he and his mechanical staff looked at every change that DL King brought to
us and we relied heavily on their expertise.

Finance Committee — 08/04/2021 Page 16
Alderwoman Lu
Okay. May | just go back to one of the earlier change orders?

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

Certainly.
Alderwoman Lu

When the contract said abate all asbestos and lead paint, did that not cover the change order on November
26" that included abatement of installation — asbestos installation.

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

That’s an excellent question.
Alderwoman Lu
Going back.

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

Excellent question.
Alderwoman Lu
| don't mean to throw that at you. That was a while ago.

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

Nope. That's okay and | fully understand your question. So we had some flooring in the motor vehicle area
which we knew contained some asbestos. We actually had a contractor come in and give us an estimate on
how much that would be to remove that prior to going out for the bid. That's the area that the contract is
speaking to. So it was well aware. It was a question asked during the walk through of the bid. What we did not
realize was that there was another area within the building. So the contract specifically speaks to the area in
motor vehicles that the bidders were well aware of that during the walkthrough. It did not speak to this
additional area which we were unaware of.

Alderwoman Lu

Okay. | took a close look at this change order because | recently was disappointed to hear that there are
mostly locked doors in the building now and | didn't remember ever seeing that on any change order and
shame on me for not looking closer because it was in the original bid. | think it's one thing to have, you know,
locks on doors but is it necessary to keep them locked? This is a public building. Everyone in here is meant to
be available to serve the public and not everyone has time, the wherewithal, or the ability to call ahead and
make an appointment. So if you can't walk in and make an appointment, then have a telephone number
posted at every door that's locked that's manned a telephone number that’s manned because if our staff is not
serving someone at that time and someone's outside the door, then, you know, be available to address what
that person came, drove to city hall for.

So that's what prompted me to look so closely at the change order into then, you know, | was looking for when
in the world did these locks on the doors come in. | don't think | ever saw anything about additional cameras in
hallways. | don't think | found out but I'm not in favor of having the doors locked. If you need to lock them

because there's no one in there that's fine but like | said | think everyone - it's a shame to have someone drive

Finance Committee — 08/04/2021 Page 17

to City Hall and they think they're going to be able to do business with, | don't know, and to find doors locked.
Thank you.

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

As aresult of this project, there is no public access area that has a locked door. It does not exist. So prior you
entered Assessing the main area to be serviced. There is a service area outside of Assessing now - a service
counter where the public would do business that is not locked. There is a service area for Tax. That is not

locked. There is no area that the public would need to access that has a locked door as a result of this project.

Alderwoman Lu

| don't - may | follow up? | just - | Know where the locks are and | always considered those public employees.
Personnel - | don't know. So I'm a public person. I'm a member of the public. | want to go into personnel. |
can't because it's locked. | have to make an appointment. I'd feel better if you could get through. | tried. | sat
on the line for three minutes today trying to speak with City Clerk. | mean either improve your phone
attendance or open up the doors. | mean, that's fine. If that is not a public part of the building - have you had
problems before? | know there was one individual that you feel you had a problem with, but is this an ongoing
issue that people are coming and going into all kinds members' offices or is it just...

Mayor Donchess

Well still, all of the City Clerk's area is publicly accessible. Assessing is publicly accessible, Motor Vehicles,
Tax, all of the areas that the public uses are publicly accessible. | mean | think what she's saying is we have a
finance person deep in some office. You know it is - does a member of the public want to or should just walk in
by down hallways, down to someone's back office, and just pop in and start asking a question of someone who
really their job has nothing to do with just answering questions but instead they're supposed to be working for
90,000 people? So! don't think it's unreasonable. If you wanted to see this person, whoever this is, who's not
involved in customer service to make an appointment to see them if there's any reason to see them. | mean, |
don't think we've received complaints about people who want to walk into the back offices and ask, you know,
just pop in and start asking questions of someone who isn't a customer service, a public service isn't in a
customer service or public service job.

Alderwoman Lu
Well | respectfully disagree and City Hall is more than, you know, registering your car and paying your tax bill,

and that type of thing. It's more than that. It's for some people it's the center of their government and when
they have concerns for any reason - | don't understand why our city employees can't be available to them.

Mayor Donchess

Well, of course, we're talking in these hypotheticals. Can you give us an example of a member of the public
who wanted to ask a specific question of a specific individual who's made some kind of complaint about this?

Alderwoman Lu

Well, | think it's a principle so | will answer your question.
Mayor Donchess

All right go ahead.

Alderwoman Lu

| will answer your question but | just want to be on record that | don't think - | think this is a principle that I'm

Finance Committee — 08/04/2021 Page 18

talking about. Now if | named someone, a close friend of mine, who had complained to me everyone in this
room, I'm afraid...

Mayor Donchess

Well don’t name them. What employee did they want to see for what reason?
Alderwoman Lu

Several. | think they, | think they | don't know why.

Mayor Donchess

Can you give us an example?

Alderwoman Lu

| think they wanted to speak with possibly the Treasurer and the door was locked and they were told you can't
go in there. And they said, “I know. | can't the door is locked.”

Mayor Donchess

The Treasurer is here and he is accessible to the public.
Alderwoman Lu

This is nothing against the Treasurer.

Mayor Donchess

You just said that someone wanted to speak to the Treasure and it was a problem because they couldn't just
walk right into the Treasurer's Office. Right? Correct?

Alderwoman Lu

Well yes.

Mayor Donchess

So the Treasurer is here.

David Fredette, Treasurer/Tax Collector

Mayor | did get a - somebody shared a concern with me last week and | was going to talk to Kim about it cause
we do have to make some changes to it. But the old setup was nobody could still walk into my office cause
there was a gate there if you remember...

Mayor Donchess
Right.

David Fredette, Treasurer/Tax Collector

and somebody had to let them in from the gate. Now | have a door that's got a frosted window so we don't
even know who's out there, unfortunately. So maybe it should have been a clear window. | don't know but and

Finance Committee — 08/04/2021 Page 19

it's locked. So somebody has to knock on it. So | was going to put up a sign with the phone number in case
somebody wants to call because one of the Clerk’s can see somebody at the door, but if she's handling a
customer, she can't just leave the customer to open up the door. So we need some kind of a switch or
something to maybe open up the door. | mean, it was something that was brought to my attention last week
and | haven't had a chance to talk to Kim about it but | did mention it to Jay | think today or yesterday.

Mayor Donchess

So that correction he's trying to make but | mean this building was built in the setup that you saw before was
built in the 1930s.

Now given a few some of the things that have happened, not some of the, a few of the things that, the many,
many things that have happened around the country, | can say that all cities are a lot more concerned about
security than they used to be. You know you've had shootings, and murders, and killings, people who come in
and, and yes, we'd all like to think that that would never happen here. You know, that Nashua is too, you
know, good a community for anything like that to happen, but it's happened in a lot of other communities that
never expected it. So you know, you can belittle that concern but having known mayors where those things did
happen. | can tell you that, you know, once it happens no one says oh my God there should never be a locked
door. So | think we've reached a reasonable compromise between making the areas of the building that are
designed to serve the public very accessible and yet other areas of the building were really there's no
customer service function involved available by appointment. So | think it's an appropriate balance and
obviously you said you disagree and okay but it is a disagreement but | think there's a reasonable rationale for
what's been done.

Alderwoman Lu

Okay. Thank you.

Mayor Donchess

Any other general discussion? All right. Public comment. Is there any public comments from members of the
public?

Alderwoman Lu

Excuse me. Mayor Donchess | think | had brought something up also that we didn't finish with if | may.
Mayor Donchess

Please go ahead.

Alderwoman Lu

Thanks. So we've inserted this deduction for plexiglass barriers in here. If it weren't there, this would be voted
upon.

Mayor Donchess
You want it vote on? Do you want it vote on?
Alderwoman Lu

No. I'd like just some guidance on what is normally done and when the deduction for plexiglass came about.

Finance Committee — 08/04/2021 Page 20

Mayor Donchess

When did the deduction for plexiglass come about?

Kim Kleiner, Administrative Services Director

So most of these change orders are brought to us in a group. So we're working in a particular area and we
then identify all the particular changes within that area. So at the same time that that deduction for plexiglass
was brought, we are also talking about installing the package drop box and changes to the main entrance.
You'll find that these are all grouped in a specific area. So it's really bright as a package and it's when we
approved them, not necessarily, you know, it could have been one day the plexiglass was brought and the next
day the furniture — furnish the package box was brought but at one meeting they were all approved and they're
all brought together.

Alderwoman Lu
Thank you. Thank you for answering my questions. | appreciate it.

PUBLIC COMMENT

Mayor Donchess
All right - Public comment. Does any member of the public wish to address the committee? Okay.
Laurie Ortolano

Yeah this is Laurie Ortolano.

Mayor Donchess

Please, please go ahead.
Laurie Ortolano

Laurie Ortolano - 41 Berkeley Street. Just a couple quick things. The discussion about the lock doors is a
concern to me and | will tell you | talked to Kim Kleiner about this last week. | don't agree with what you're
saying here, Mr. Mayor. You brought up a safety issue that no one else brought up when | addressed it and |
think it's not relevant to what's going on. The offices that were open were Finance. Don't describe it as down
a hallway tucked in the back. The only reason it's located there is because we've got an old building built like a
maze and that's where they are. Now you go down the hallway and it opens into a suite of offices. | used to
be able to walk in there. Sometimes the door was propped open and just ask Rose if she could check a bill for
me. | didn't do it often, but | will tell you it was very convenient when | was in Assessing or over in permits and
| wanted something checked. | could do it.

The other thing is Human Resources. | think I've gone in there two or three times to request a resume or a
piece of information | could walk in and ask. The third area is down next to Assessing are the ladies who
process abatement checks. My check address was incorrect. | walked in and asked them to correct it. |
consider that city business and these locked doors | was told by Ms. Kleiner it was the choice of the directors.

| specifically asked her about Mr. Fredette’s and John Griffin's office and it was their choice to have those locks
put on. She said she left it up to the directors to choose if they wanted them and they did. | feel we should find
new directors who don't want locks. So | disagree with you completely.

Also, | sent an email out regarding - and this is a finance, a money issue. I'm speaking to you about it because
| don't know who else to speak to about it. | sent an e-mail out looking at risk exposure from the Legal Office.
We run risk exposure reports for abatements and appeals. Risk Management runs a risk exposure report or a

Finance Committee — 08/04/2021 Page 21

liability report based on workers' comp, and slip and falls, and employee issues but the third area that we have
risk exposure is our lawsuits or pending lawsuits and | didn't realize that that was held separately by the Legal
office. | have never seen any reporting on those risks and the number of suits we have running in Legal. Now
| wrote a letter to the Budget Committee and you were cc'd on it Mr. Mayor today to ask a few questions about
it and then request if there was a report that they provided to me. | got a response back from Rick Dowd telling
me to this question is best answered by Legal and any Right-To-Know requests gets referred to Legal. | let
him know that | was confused by that because | was told to go to departments. But that also | had questions in
my e-mail and Legal isn't responsible for answering questions.

Well, tonight, while you're sitting in this meeting, Attorney Bolton puts out one of his punch in the face e-mails
that says, “the Legal Department represents the city and provides advice only to city officials and employees
regarding the city matters. Please do not ever advise anyone other than a city official or employee to contact
us with questions. Please know many, many Right-To-Know requests are not referred to the Legal
Department.” Well, obviously he's giving a reprimand to Rick Dowd who clearly didn't know it wasn't supposed
to be referred there and | think you're right to no training and understanding of what your departments are
supposed to do is unclear. | spoke to a department this week that said to me, of course, you know | have to
bring this through Legal. So | don't know what you're doing, but this e-mail - and | don't know if Attorney Bolton
is there but I'm sure his ego is - it fills a room no matter where he is. | think it's obnoxious to write this. Handle
that privately and train your people because they don't know. | forwarded it, the e-mail, to Attorney Bolton as a
Right-To-Know but then told the committee I'm asking questions and | feel the questions are yours to answer.

| wrote an e-mail to you maybe three weeks ago asking you to help me clarify what are the channels I'm
supposed to use to get information? | received nothing. These types of scolding e-mails from your legal office
are obnoxious. You really need a new Corporation Counsel. There's no - and | will tell you, | have called legal
offices around the State. | have worked with legal offices to get Right-To-Know information and
Attorneys...guess what you can call them and get...

Mayor Donchess

Ms. Ortolano we limit these...Ms. Ortolano. Sorry but we limit the public comment to 3 minutes and we’re way
over that right now. So could you just conclude, please?

Laurie Ortolano

Give me 30 more seconds because you didn't give me a warning like you usually do. So yes | can limit my
time and | will.

Mayor Donchess

Thirty seconds. Go ahead, 30 seconds.
Laurie Ortolano

Thank you. | will let you know that other legal offices around the State as well as the Attorney General's office,
the Department of Revenue legal office will take my phone call, work with me, answer questions, and help me
understand how data is stored and maintained in their facilities to fill a Right-To-Know request. Your Legal
office refuses to do that thereby driving up the cost not only for all taxpayers. It's obnoxious. You need to
dump Attorney Bolton and find somebody who wants to do that job as Corporation Counsel. Thank you.

Mayor Donchess

All right. Any other member of the public want to address the committee? If not, we're going to remarks by
Alderman. Any alderman wish to make remarks. Alderwoman Lu

REMARKS BY THE ALDERMEN