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Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P15

By dnadmin on Mon, 11/07/2022 - 07:48
Document Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Meeting Description
Board Of Aldermen
Document Type
Minutes
Meeting Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Page Number
15
Image URL
https://nashuameetingsstorage.blob.core.windows.net/nm-docs-pages/boa_m__030820…

Board of Aldermen 03-08-2022 Page 15

Cathey. | said if he doesn’t sponsor it, | will because on the other side of the road is Ward 8. So it’s my people that are
the ones that are concerned about it even though this is technically in Ward 7.

So what’s happening is people are coming out of the Bluestone apartments, and the Louisburg Square apartments, and
people who are eating at Pizza Hut | guess as well and the only way out of that way is to take the U-turn if you want to go
North or to go all the way down and take a right down by Barnes and Noble and Shaw’s. So it was there to try to protect
people from getting into accidents because people aren’t waiting all the time. They’re supposed to stop but if they see an
opening, they take it, and people are taking the U-turn because they have the light. It’s potential for risk and for accidents.

Since we’ve put this in, gas prices have skyrocketed and now you have all kinds of traffic going in and out of there. So |
think honestly, and | hope Matt Sullivan is still here, | think there needs to be a bigger fix for that whole thing because it’s
beginning to get really messy down there and there is going to be other problems not just this right turn on red, but there
are going to be other things that we need to work on because we're starting to get more e-mails about it in general. | think
it’s a bigger issue, but for now we've started with this. Thank you.

Alderwomen Kelly

Thank you and thank you for bringing this forward. | had some questions. | did look through the discussion at
Infrastructure and I’m actually pretty knowledgeable about this area. | do go here for gas, so | Know how busy it can get
there. | do know that Matt Sullivan is here and wondering if he could speak to the end of the memos that the Planning
Department is looking at the bigger solution and | wanted to know what that is. Because | always get worried that we’re
making a short-term decision to try to fix something when there is a longer-term solution with the businesses that we
heard from and the business that will be going in.

Matt Sullivan, Community Development Director

Good evening members of the Board. Matt Sullivan, new Community Development Director. It feels good. | also believe
that Dan Hudson is on and I’m not going to put him on the spot speaking to this, but the implication there is we also
recognize as the neighboring owners made us aware this evening that there is other potential development proposed in
this area and approved development in this area. That included additional traffic impacts that were contemplated in the
Planning Board's review of the application at that time.

So the comment made to larger development trends in the area is simply to say we need to be more deliberate as we go
through traffic study and corridor study to ensure that any proposed developments and even those that are approved
currently are adequately mitigating the traffic. What | will say is that we have been in direct contact with Bu’s about the
current condition and the approved condition and asked them to supply additional traffic study data for us to review and
consider and we may, in fact, compel them (I’m comfortable saying this on the record) we may in fact compel them to
return to the Planning Board to make circulation changes to their site to deal with these conditions that we are witnessing.
We believe now only because of the current gas price trends but also because of the design of the site, that the traffic
impact was under estimated and therefore the impacts to Adventure Way and the DW Highway corridor were not
adequately planned for. So we’re taking more comprehensive look at this intersection certainly based on that
contemplated development, but we do intend to intervene with BU’s directly as they have created in combination with other
businesses a compounded affect an unsafe intersection condition here. | hope that addresses your question.

Alderwoman Kelly

It does. If | could have one more follow-up. So | guess that’s really good information. | understand there is increased
traffic here and what I’m trying to wrap my head around because I’m looking at this amazing traffic study - if you’ve ever
looked at one, they are quite interesting to look at - but | think my question is around is the attention to this spot just
because we have additional cars because that right turn from Adventure Way is not the Bu’s people. You have to go in,
and around, and back onto DW. So those right turns and those U-turns should have already been going on the whole
time. So I’m trying to figure out where...

Matt Sullivan, Community Development Director

Yes absolutely. | think it has been exacerbated by the BU’s development. Certainly this is not a new condition, but | think
it's been amplified based on that new development. | don’t know if it’s appropriate to call on Dan Hudson if he still has
joined us this evening. He may be able to speak more adequately to some of this. If he’s not available | can certainly
provide some additional information.

President Wilshire

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Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P15

Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P16

By dnadmin on Mon, 11/07/2022 - 07:48
Document Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Meeting Description
Board Of Aldermen
Document Type
Minutes
Meeting Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Page Number
16
Image URL
https://nashuameetingsstorage.blob.core.windows.net/nm-docs-pages/boa_m__030820…

Board of Aldermen 03-08-2022 Page 16

He’s available. Mr. Hudson would you care to join us?

Dan Hudson, City Engineer

Thanks Mr. Director. No, that’s correctly described. This is an existing problem that has been there for a while. It is
exasperated by the additional level of traffic. What you have at that location is a high number of U-turns for the reasons
Alderman Thibeault noted. To reverse direction, people have to use that U-turn and at the same time, some people are
trying to take a right turn on red. It’s not a great location sight distance wise because you are coming up the vertical hill
there. You are looking left, your left turn traffic beside you, you have a couple lanes going northbound on DW Highway,
and now as of late you have some added congestion because of Bu’s traffic. So it’s a condition that has existed. We
would have recommended that it be changed regardless, but it has become more recently more problematic because of
the additional congestion.

President Wilshire

Seven hands just went up! Alderman O’Brien.

Alderman O’Brien

Thank you Madam President. We heard this in Infrastructure and | don’t want to go deep into history, but you have to
remember right turn on red lights some of you don’t remember the 70’s. | vaguely do myself. Some of you weren’t born
during the 70’s, but the thing is we went through a real crisis where there wasn’t enough fuel and shows history. Looking
today, history repeats itself and fuel prices went up. But for a vehicle to sit at a red light in dead idle, there was great
concern. So there was federal change and they said “yes”. All States had you had to stop completely at a red light, no
turning at all. That’s why the green arrow was invented, but because of the fuel shortage and then they came out with the
right turn on red unless the municipality looked at it and then determined that it was hazardous to do so. We have now
come to that with this particular intersection. So therefore, that’s why it passed the Committee, but | just wanted to bring
the background information on why we do have the authority to limit the right turn on red. | mean prior to 1970, everybody
had to come to a complete stop.

Now as far as the Bu’s, | wish they had better signage. | don’t know, maybe somebody can talk to them but there is an
exit on the DW for heading northbound. So there really is not a need for the BU customer to go down back to Adventure
Way, and then to come up, and then to go through the light. Usually | try to avoid lights, although it is against the law to
go on somebodies property to avoid them. The thing is there is a way out, but unfortunately the public isn’t using this
which created this. So therefore, it went through Infrastructure, we approved it, and | hope that answers some of your
questions on why we have the authority to do so. Thank you.

Alderman Klee

Thank you Madam President. The truth is that | think what people have stated here the entrance into the Bu’s gas station
is what is backing up. It’s not the people leaving the gas station because they coming out of and I, too, like Alderwoman
Kelly has use it quite often.

The issue that | see is that they’re coming out of BU’s, doing a right turn on red, and then we have a U-turn as well. | know
in Concord they put up different kinds of lights saying you know “you can’t right turn on red when someone is doing a U-
turn”. They have these big giant signs.

| had a couple questions and perhaps Mr. Hudson can answer them. In the downtown area we have right turn on red, but
we have restrictions like off of Amherst Street onto Main Street during certain hours. Would that be something that would
allow for this but during certain times not to allow for it? | don’t think that this is going to affect the right turn on red. It’s
going to affect the Adventure Way, but | think maybe if we allowed it to happen during the really not busy times or

something much like we do even on Main Street. Would something like this help or is it just kind of a waste of time to do
it?

Dan Hudson, City Engineer

Sure. Thank you. | supposed that in the late hours of the evening if it’s not busy, then it wouldn’t be as needed. One
thing to note too is that lane that you can make a right turn from is a shared through right lane. So the only people that
are turning right on red are the first or second person in line if those people want to turn right versus go through. So a lot
of people are trapped behind the throughs during the red anyway.

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Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P16

Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P17

By dnadmin on Mon, 11/07/2022 - 07:48
Document Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Meeting Description
Board Of Aldermen
Document Type
Minutes
Meeting Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Page Number
17
Image URL
https://nashuameetingsstorage.blob.core.windows.net/nm-docs-pages/boa_m__030820…

Board of Aldermen 03-08-2022 Page 17

So | don’t think this change will have a significant effect on traffic conditions in the area. | think it’s more of a safety issue
and it was brought forward based on concerns that we received. But if the Board wanted to entertain any hour restriction,
we certainly can do that but | wouldn't do that during normal business hours or on Saturdays. This last Saturday | heard
there was a lot of issues there as well so.

Alderman Klee

Thank you, I’m not suggesting, just wanted to get some ideas.

Alderman Moran

Thank you Madam President. So | take this way home. | live in Ward 7 but | work in Ward 8. I'll come down Spit Brook
and take a left onto DW. | don’t think so much it’s the traffic that’s coming from Adventure Way, | think it’s the human
behavior change because now you're frustrated. Frustrated that you can’t get into CVS, frustrated that you can’t get into
Best Buy, and now people are coming back onto Adventure Way, and just flooring it as fast as they can. Where | come
from, it's a Massachusetts stop, a slow roll, make sure nothings coming, but not paying attention to the U-turn. | think the
frustration is caused by the increased traffic in that area that is really causing people to blow through that light. | for one
before Lent started, | would visit that Pizza Hut almost frequently, every day if | could, and that U-turn is true. Everyone
coming out of that side you’re going to get side swiped. | was leaving CVS the other day and someone banged that U-
turn and entered into the gas station from the wrong entrance where it clearly says “not an entrance”. So there is a lot of
frustration over there that does need further study for the impact on the area. But | think this ordinance will slow people
down to think twice before they take a right into a U-turn.

Alderman Clemons

| agree completely with Alderman Moran on this. For me it’s about the traffic that is making a U-turn. | have been in that
situation myself making that U-turn where | almost go into an accident with somebody coming out making a right turn on
red. | personally feel that wherever we can have a right hand turn on red, we should have it. | even like the left hand
turns on red on one-way streets like over on West Hollis Street. | think its Liberty onto West Hollis Street you can do that,
but it has to be safe. When you have an entire population of people that live on one side of the road and the only way that
they can turn around and go north is to make a U-turn, then that U-turn has to be safe for them. So for those reasons, I’m
going to support this legislation.

Alderwoman Kelly

Thank you. | actually wanted to ask, and | don’t know if the idea and maybe this is for Mr. Hudson, to restrict the U-turn
was ever looked at. | disagree with what was just said that you can just go a block further and you can get on past the
Shaw’s. Also you can go out of some of those apartments the other way. | know which ones you’re talking about but like
Royal Ridge you can go through the other way.

President Wilshire

Did you have a question?

Alderwoman Kelly

My question is have we ever considered restricting the U-turns? Sorry | said a lot around the question.

Dan Hudson, City Engineer

Thank you. That was talked about, | believe, both when Bu’s came forward with their traffic study and later when Costco
came forward with their study. That was talked about, but it’s a very heavy U-turn movement because all of the
residences that want to reverse direction. So in looking at the number of people that wouldn’t have a great alternative
otherwise, you'd have to go further to make another U-turn heavier somewhere else. | think it became a consensus that
that wasn’t a recommended approach.

Alderwoman Kelly

Thank you very much.

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Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P17

Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P18

By dnadmin on Mon, 11/07/2022 - 07:48
Document Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Meeting Description
Board Of Aldermen
Document Type
Minutes
Meeting Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Page Number
18
Image URL
https://nashuameetingsstorage.blob.core.windows.net/nm-docs-pages/boa_m__030820…

Board of Aldermen 03-08-2022 Page 18

Alderman Comeau

Thank you Madam President. | was actually going to ask the same question. It seemed like a lot of conversations were
centered around the people making the U-turns. In general, | favor things that are less restrictive. | feel like the more we
keep the cars moving, the less they’ll be backing up somewhere else. | know it’s been said that the traffic isn’t necessarily
the people leaving the gas station, but the fact is there is significant increase because of that. So it’s just increasing the
number of cars in the area in general and people making a right turn in the face of somebody making a U-turn are already
doing the wrong thing because you’re supposed to be waiting until there is an opening. I’m not sure if we further restrict
that if people who are already doing the wrong thing aren’t just continue doing a different wrong thing, but it will also slow
down some people who may have the opportunity to go and now won't be able to if they do follow the instructions of the
signage when it might have been perfectly clear to make their turn and now they're not going to and that is going to back
up everyone else who’s trying to get out of that roadway.

My thought as far as getting rid of the U-turn was that the next light is only a couple hundred feet up. | know it is also a
busy intersection because it’s Spit Brook Road, but the timing of those lights offers a green arrow for U-turns specifically.
The north bound and south bound lanes have the simultaneous lefts. So that flows pretty well. In my experience, | don’t
know what impact this would have on that but it seems that if our concerns are largely centered around the U-turns and
not the right turns, then maybe we should be looking to restrict that instead.

Alderman Dowd

Yes. | just want to ask the question having been familiar with infrastructure changes in Ward 2. What type of
infrastructure studies would you need to make this happen - signage and is that going to be in place before we are making
other changes to that intersection or taking advantage of the traffic study to find out what the ultimate solutions are? | will
tell you that | think that U-turn to go north is dangerous. So either you shouldn’t be able to take the U-turn when people
are taking a right which would say “no right turn on red”, so I'd be in favor of what we’re asking right now but how long
would it take to implement that?

Dan Hudson, City Engineer

I’m not sure if | fully understood the question. | will tell you what has been looked at is the lengthening the southbound left
turn. That’s something we know is not quite enough storage and that was looked at as part of the Costco study and that
change is planned to be made by Costco.

The right turn on red, as | said, | don’t foresee significant backups as far as safety issue. | don’t think it’s going to
significantly change things, but it is going to reinforce the fact that we don’t believe it’s safe to make that maneuver with
the U-turns. When the Costco development is constructed, that will connect through some of the other ways to come and
go. That may help. Those are the kinds of changes we talked about. Also Costco as part of their offsite development,
they plan to lengthen the turn lanes and it may | believe even change the configuration where you would have a left
through lane and a right turn only lane which would improve some things there because you could maybe have a right
turn signalized overlap with another move. There are some things in the works. Nothing immediate. For this change if it
was approved, it would be simply putting up no right turn on red sign at the signal on Adventure Way.

Alderman Cathey

To Alderman Thibeault’s point, DPW did contact me and said that Thibeault would support the legislation if | did not. My
first question was | need a traffic study. I’m not going to do anything without data. That doesn’t make any sense.

Secondly, the right on red still doesn’t make sense because the majority of people who are going northbound know that
you can leave Bu’s going northbound at that one exit. There is a very low probability that people who are going to loop
back around Bu’s back down, which you can do, and then go back up to make the right on red. It’s not expedient. It
doesn’t make sense. So the majority of the traffic is SkyVenture, CVS (which already has a very, very compacted parking
lot). | do not take my Ford F150 in there because it’s very difficult to get out. The same thing with Best Buy if you want to
go back down around or go into the garage or whatever. So in my opinion, a majority of the traffic is businesses that are
not related to BJ’s and they will be prohibited especially when the shopping season comes up and then even more so
when Costco gets built and gets connected. | think the back-ups are going to get worse and | think the right on red (there
has been no accidents reported | don’t think at that U-turn for right on red U-turn) so maybe it has been dangerous
anecdotally but there hasn’t been an uptick in accidents, so | don’t think that it’s necessarily a problem that hasn’t already
existed and | don’t think this solves the problem either.

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Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P18

Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P19

By dnadmin on Mon, 11/07/2022 - 07:48
Document Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Meeting Description
Board Of Aldermen
Document Type
Minutes
Meeting Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Page Number
19
Image URL
https://nashuameetingsstorage.blob.core.windows.net/nm-docs-pages/boa_m__030820…

Board of Aldermen 03-08-2022 Page 19

Alderman Thibeault

| mean this was a problem even before Bu’s. It’s not probably strictly for that and Mr. Hudson can certainly attest to what
kind of complaints they were getting before. Obviously it got to a point where they asked me to sponsor this bill.

| just wanted to address something Alderman Comeau said that so we have two sets of apartments - Bluestone and
Louisburg Square. You have Royal Crest, but to Alderwoman Kelly's point, Royal Crest can get out the other way. Now
of course if they’re closer to there, now we’re going to make them go all through the whole Royal Crest to get out. That’s
fine, let them go, we don’t care, right? The other two sets of apartments, you are still talking thousands of people, right.
So now you're going to tell them don’t take the U-turn, go down to the light, we’re going to make your life uncomfortable
so people don’t have to obey the right turn on red law. So let them go right on red. We don’t care. We want the other
people to move all the way down there so why should we inconvenience them for people who are breaking the law
anyway. That’s the part that | don’t get.

Thank you to Alderman Klee and Mr. Hudson for talking about those lanes. There are only two lanes there so what
happens if you’re going to Shaw’s and you’re going straight, you're block every single person that wants to go right
anyway and it backs up that way. | know. | go to CVS and then | go to Shaw’s, so | know sometimes I’m the one blocking
everybody. So | just want to point a few of those things out and thank you.

Alderman Klee

Thank you Madam President. Truthfully | think this was a pre-Bu’s. BJ’s may be exacerbating it but | think it was a pre-
BJ’s issue and | say that because | have used that CVS for a pharmacy. | have done a lot of shopping at Best Buy and |
turn in on that way when | come in the way that I’m coming. | can tell you that | have right turned on red there, and | am
careful, and | am very cautious. You get part way out there and suddenly that person is - because they have the light. |
can't see that they have the light. Everything is paused, the light turns, and there have been some near misses. So to
say that there were no accidents there, if our Public Works is getting complaints, and this is becoming an issue, and
they’ve gone and they’ve looked at it, | feel confident that this is something we should pass and I’m grateful that there will
be other studies being done as more businesses come into there and so on. | think this is a stop gap issue. We can’t ask
all those people - and I’ve been in line multiple cycles to do that turn or to do a U-Turn there. | think it’s something that we
should pass this evening.

Alderman Clemons

| agree with what Alderman Thibeault previously said about the residents who live there. You can’t restrict the U-turn
because we don’t have a viable option for them to go the other way. That’s the problem. This was a problem before Bu’s
and actually was a worse problem before BU’s because in addition to the right turn, the parking lot was also at the same
entrance. So you could have somebody making a left turn into the parking lot and crossing over where you were turning
right. That doesn’t exist anymore. That problem is solved with the new Bu’s gas station. However those that are still
making the U-turn, it is a problem and so | think we need to take deference to the people who live in the neighborhoods
who need to utilize the Daniel Webster Highway and make that U-turn and give them the preferential treatment that they
deserve by living in a neighborhood where unfortunately the only way that they can go north conveniently is to make a U-
turn. They shouldn’t have to do it fighting somebody else coming out of that intersection.

| know that it’s not perfect, it’s not a perfect solution. It certainly — | wish in a perfect world everybody would do the right
thing and we wouldn't have to worry about making laws like this. But unfortunately, | can attest myself to being in close
situations and the fact that there hasn’t been an accident there if that’s the case, we’re lucky. So again, I’m going to vote
in favor of this because I’m giving deference to those who live in the neighborhoods up there.

Alderman Gouveia

Thank you Madam President. | have to agree with Alderman Clemons on this. | kind of sat on the fence. | did vote “yes”
in committee on it, but | do feel for the people who live in the surrounding area taking away that U-turn just isn’t the option
that we really have and I'll be voting “yes” on this. Thank you.

MOTION CARRIED

Ordinance O-22-004 declared duly adopted.

NEW BUSINESS — RESOLUTIONS

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Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P19

Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P20

By dnadmin on Mon, 11/07/2022 - 07:48
Document Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Meeting Description
Board Of Aldermen
Document Type
Minutes
Meeting Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Page Number
20
Image URL
https://nashuameetingsstorage.blob.core.windows.net/nm-docs-pages/boa_m__030820…

Board of Aldermen 03-08-2022 Page 20

R-22-014
Endorsers: Mayor Jim Donchess
Alderman-at-Large Michael B. O’Brien, Sr.
Alderman Patricia Klee
Alderman Thomas Lopez
Alderwoman-at-Large Shoshanna Kelly
Alderman Derek Thibeault
Alderman-at-Large Lori Wilshire
RELATIVE TO THE TRANSFER OF $44,400 FROM ACCOUNT 70100 “GENERAL CONTINGENCY” INTO
DEPARTMENT 179 “LIBRARY”, ACCOUNTING CLASSIFICATION 53 “PROFESSIONAL AND TECHNICAL
SERVICES” TO FUND HALF THE COST OF A FACILITY ASSESSMENT AND MASTER PLAN FOR THE LIBRARY
BUILDING
Given its first reading; Assigned to the BUDGET REVIEW COMMITTEE by President Wilshire

R-22-015
Endorsers: Alderman-at-Large Lori Wilshire
Alderman Richard A. Dowd
Alderman-at-Large Michael B. O’Brien, Sr.
Alderman John Sullivan
Alderman Patricia Klee
Alderman-at-Large Melbourne Moran, Jr.
Alderman Thomas Lopez
Alderman-at-Large Ben Clemons
Alderwoman-at-Large Shoshanna Kelly
Alderman Alex Comeau
Alderman Tyler Gouveia
Alderman John Cathey
Alderman Derek Thibeault
Alderwoman-at-Large Gloria Timmons
APPROVING THE COST ITEMS OF A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE NASHUA
BOARD OF POLICE COMMISSIONERS AND TEAMSTERS LOCAL 633, FROM JULY 1, 2022 THROUGH JUNE 30,
2026
Given its first reading; Assigned to the BUDGET REVIEW COMMITTEE by President Wilshire

R-22-016
Endorsers: Alderman Richard A. Dowd
Alderman-at-Large Michael B. O’Brien, Sr.
Alderman John Sullivan
Alderman Patricia Klee
Alderman-at-Large Ben Clemons
Alderman Derek Thibeault
Alderwoman-at-Large Gloria Timmons
Alderman-at-Large Lori Wilshire
AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND CITY TREASURER TO ISSUE BONDS NOT TO EXCEED THE AMOUNT OF
FIVE MILLION DOLLARS ($5,000,000) FOR FRANKLIN STREET SCHOOL BUILDING IMPROVEMENTS
Given its first reading; Assigned to the BUDGET REVIEW COMMITTEE, BOARD OF EDUCATION, and schedule a
SPECIAL BOARD OF ALDERMAN PUBLIC HEARING on Monday, March 21, 2022 at 6:00 p.m. by President Wilshire

R-22-017
Endorsers: Alderman-at-Large Ben Clemons
Alderman-at-Large Michael B. O’Brien, Sr.
Alderman Patricia Klee
Alderman-at-Large Melbourne Moran, Jr.
Alderman Thomas Lopez
Alderman Richard A. Dowd
Alderman Derek Thibeault
Alderwoman-at-Large Gloria Timmons
AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO A SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE 14 COURT STREET LEASE
FOR UNIT B WITH LIQUID THERAPY, LLC
Given its first reading; Assigned to the PERSONNEL/ADMINISTRATIVE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE by President Wilshire

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Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P20

Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P21

By dnadmin on Mon, 11/07/2022 - 07:48
Document Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Meeting Description
Board Of Aldermen
Document Type
Minutes
Meeting Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Page Number
21
Image URL
https://nashuameetingsstorage.blob.core.windows.net/nm-docs-pages/boa_m__030820…

Board of Aldermen 03-08-2022 Page 21

NEW BUSINESS — ORDINANCES

O0-22-010
Endorsers: Mayor Jim Donchess
Alderman Patricia Klee
Alderman-at-Large Melbourne Moran, Jr.
Alderman Thomas Lopez
Alderman-at-Large Ben Clemons
Alderman Derek Thibeault
AMENDING THE LAND USE CODE BY ADDING PROVISIONS REGARDING SYNTHETIC NICOTINE AND
ELECTRONIC SMOKING DEVICE SALES AND LOUNGES
Given its first reading; Assigned to the PLANNING AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE, PLANNING
BOARD, and schedule a PUBLIC HEARING on Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 7:00 p.m. by President Wilshire

PERIOD FOR GENERAL PUBLIG COMMENT

President Wilshire

Tonight we have Julie Saige. Please give your name and address for the record and you have 3 minutes to speak.

Julie Saige

Hello, my name is Julie Saige. | live at 38 Deerwood Drive. I’m here because | was lied about and defamed in the last
meeting and | need to set the record straight. Before | start with this, I'd like to thank the four Aldermen who specifically said
that it was wrong for people to be laughing at and knocking me while | was speaking. One thing that | was accused of is
having fear in my voice. That was not fear. It was me talking quickly because 3 minutes is not enough to discuss COVID
and masks.

Besides being accused of having this fear, this lady talked as she knew who | was but | have never met or seen in my entire
life. | cannot quote what these things she lied about so I’m going to paraphrase. She claimed that the information | gave
was taught in school. There is literally no school in America that is teaching about CCL11 in the brain. She said | needed
guidance and needed help in understanding the statistics and claimed the information | gave was outdated. She continued
to say that we needed to protect our children so we don’t continue to spiral down an echo chamber of fear and she pointed at
the screen where | was acting like | had some mental illness. She accused me of getting my information off of Facebook and
TikTok and not from talking to people and all these statements are just false. | made the mistake that someone on the Board
would have known who | was, so let me tell you a little about who | am.

As far as | can find, | am the most awarded teen with different experiments, inventions in areas of science. | am also a teen
who has won the most spots to have experiments (inaudible) with space with eight already in space and two more this year.
| was a New Hampshire State winner for the Discovery Education 3M Young Scientist Challenge and placed in the top 10 of
International Next-Gen Mask Challenge which was redesigning face masks to make them better. There were around 1,000
entries and | made it to the top 10 beating out top universities and engineering firms. | also have two provisional patents on
my face mask design. When it comes to masks, | am the expert. | also ran my own science news on YouTube and Twitter
for the last 6 years.

| get my information from actually talking to epidemiologists from around the world, pediatric doctors in multiple areas of
pediatrics, cardiologists, emergency room doctors, and nurses, etc. Since March 2020, | have switched completely and have
now only been doing news on Twitter dealing specifically with COVID. During this time, | was the first to say we need to be
more concerned about variants. That it was mutating faster that it was supposed to be. | got Apple to look at how to clean
their phones. | was the one that got people to stop (inaudible) masks because of material infection and other things. | was
also the first to say that we dropped masks too soon and people could catch COVID outside and the list goes on forever
which was all proven.

| understand physics and | understand particles. To think that | need guidance and understanding when some of the top
epidemiologists in the world follow me is insulting. | kind of shocked that a complete stranger was allowed to talk said she
knew anything about me? People try to say that masks are...

Donna Graham, Legislative Affairs Manager

30 seconds

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Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P22

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Meeting Description
Board Of Aldermen
Document Type
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Board of Aldermen 03-08-2022 Page 22

Julie Saige

...out of control but they want to control us especially kids in every aspect. She kept saying our children. | am not her child.
No one owns me. This also goes beyond ridicule and public. My family has been coughed on, spat on by adults, and | even
had a lit cigarette thrown at me the other day all because about wearing masks. When we contacted the police about this,
they said that they will do absolutely nothing about it. Nashua does not protect its children and this will happen again now
that the ordinance is rescinded. One more thing about who | am...

Donna Graham, Legislative Affairs Manager

Time
Daniel Saige

Hello. My name is Daniel Saige. I’m at 38 Deerwood. I’m actually going to talk about something a little bit different. | let my
daughter speak for herself. There was something that was said quite often that had me confused. | did a little bit of politics.
| ran for independent in California Governor. | grew up in lowa — learned that law is what’s important. You guys actually
have a great council here — legal counsel. But during the last meeting, a lot of people kept saying “mask mandate”. You
guys had an ordinance. You're the legislation branch. You don’t have mandates. Executive Branch has mandates through
departments and judicial branches have mandates. You have an ordinance. It’s just not the same thing. The problem when
you’re using these words wrong is people believe you can’t follow a mandate. You actually have a person come up and say
that “mandates aren’t legal’. A mandate from a court is very legal. If they tell you that you need to get psychiatric help, you
have to do it. A mandate from the Public Health office is mandatory. You have to do it. It causes where younger people
also will get confused. If they’re told that they have to follow this mandate and then they think that they don’t have to, or if
they think that it’s not an ordinance that it didn’t come from legislation. You guys actually did a good job in that.

When the Governor’s office did it, that was a mandate but you guys went through your branch. It’s just something that |
wanted to point out and I’m not sure how much you are getting the information from legal specifically about this. That’s
something to be very, very careful about. When people say they don’t like mandates so that’s why they were going to
rescind it, every ordinance you do is exactly the same thing. So it’s also kind of confusing there. It’s just one of those things
to bring to you guys’ attention.

Laurie Ortolano

Laurie Ortolano, 41 Berkeley Street, Nashua. I’d like to thank the Board for sending 14 Court Street back to the Budget
Committee for review.

I'd also like to ask the Mayor — you gave a nice presentation on our COVID numbers, but I’m wondering what level we’re at.
Usually you say if we’re at still at substantial and the website still has us at a substantial rate of transmission and I'd like to
know when that’s going to change.

I'd like to address the removal of the press table at the back of the room. So this is your Chamber collectively and | was told
that now Attorney Bolton is looking at putting a law library back there with some books. I'd kind of like to know. | got my
press pass, and I’m ready to report, and the table has been removed. So | think we should bring our press table back and if
you are going to have a law library back there, | think that’s terrific. | think you should dedicate a shelf to Right-to-Know Law
because | think we could use some polishing up on that.

As far as barriers go, that’s coming up tomorrow and I'd like to say I’ve done quite a bit of work looking at the data and a
friend of mine compiled all the surveys and information from February 22 and March 8 as of today. | think there is a lot of
data in there that shows there is not a lot of support for these barriers. I’m disappointed in the letter that went out from the
Mayor because | think that it was not clear, and it was convoluted, and it had a twisted view on what should be said. | know
Derek you're shaking your head “no”, but really you should allow me to speak and give me the courtesy to do that and then
you can state your position on what you see. Some of it’s debatable because its data on the way it’s written and | really
understand that. I’m looking at overall the response from the newspaper, the petitions that were signed, and the letters that
in both sets of information.

Finally I’d like to speak on safety. | really think that the two new Chiefs had a private meeting with Alderman O’Brien and
Tim Cummings to address the safety issues. | think these safety issues have been raised repeatedly by the public and |
think our safety officials should put in writing their concerns. No short, small meetings with pro-barrier people on how we’re
making accommodations. | think it’s reasonable that that be put in writing. Those are safety issues for our citizens so please
ask your Fire and Police Department to put in writing the safety issues.

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Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P23

By dnadmin on Mon, 11/07/2022 - 07:48
Document Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Meeting Description
Board Of Aldermen
Document Type
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Meeting Date
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Page Number
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Board of Aldermen 03-08-2022 Page 23

Finally, I’d like to let you know that | was up at the State House today giving testimony on the (inaudible) Bill for the Right-to-
Know office.

Donna Graham, Legislative Affairs Manager

30 seconds
Laurie Ortolano

| think that was very promising. It looks like it’s going to pass. That will allow citizens to file a Right-to-Know challenge for
$25 with an office, the (inaudible) office for Right-to-Know who will take the case and assist you with the challenge. | think it
will offer some nice benefits to controlling costs, getting answers, and creating better transparency for New Hampshire.
Thank you.

Karen Bill

Good evening. Karen Bill, 95 Parnell Place, Nashua. While | was reading through the 350-page Board of Alderman
package this afternoon, | was puzzled by the support for the keeping outside dining like someone said it was going away and
| was informed that the Mayor had sent a letter asking if residents wanted it to be continued like it was going away. It really
puzzled me and made me think a little bit about how information is disseminated sometimes in letters maybe from the Mayor,
but from a believable office like for the Police Commission and $4 million waiting in the wings for the PAC, and to get people
to vote for it, and then there’s not really $4 million waiting in the wings.

But really I’m here to speak about correspondence that | sent to the entire Board. | was advised that when | send something
to the entire Board - yes you get it and it’s in the meeting minutes, but what | wasn’t prepared for was no replies. Zero
replies. I’ve had a lengthy conversation with City Counsel about Right-to-Know. As you know, | sent three e-mails to
Director Cummings asking for minutes for the barrier meetings. When | said “Right-to-Know” in the fourth e-mail that | sent
to all of you, then | got a reply that said “I have no such document”. | talked about this last time | was here. The minutes
were on the website. | found them last week sometime when | downloaded them they were blank. | can’t make this up.

To file a Right-to-Know request to get a simple answer to a question is insulting and acting in bad faith. The City continues
to act in bad faith. Do you think 90,000 residents in Nashua, let’s say 60,000 of them — | think I’m pretty close are voting age
- how would you like 60,000 Right-to-Know requests to get a simple answer to a question? We just want records that should
be made available under the law. It is a law. It is a law that you have to register your car. Do you think Attorney Jette gets a
pass because he has Esquire behind his name and he doesn’t want to pay to register his car?

Donna Graham, Legislative Affairs Manager

30 seconds

Karen Bill

No if | were employed with a company and | broke the law, I'd be fired. There is no consequence in this city for ignoring the
law. It’s not about a person, it’s about behavior. Unlawful, deceptive, and condoned by leadership who should also be held
accountable.

You know tonight you swore somebody in who said they’d be impartial. | wonder if Mr. Cummings took that oath as well.
Again, management style - ignore them long enough and they'll go away. Well guess what, I’m a resident and | deserve for
my questions to be answered...

Donna Graham, Legislative Affairs Manager

Time.

President Wilshire

Your time is up Miss Bill.
Karen Bill

And I'd like to know who’s going to answer my questions Madam President. Is that unfair?

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Board Of Aldermen - Minutes - 3/8/2022 - P24

By dnadmin on Mon, 11/07/2022 - 07:48
Document Date
Tue, 03/08/2022 - 00:00
Meeting Description
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Document Type
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Meeting Date
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Page Number
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Board of Aldermen 03-08-2022 Page 24

President Wilshire

There isn’t a question and answer period.
Karen Bill
Well that’s just it, there doesn’t seem to be one.

President Wilshire

Your time is up Ms. Bill.
Karen Bill

According to law.
Elizabeth Lu

Elizabeth Lu, 17 Roby Street. First | just want to clarify every year what appropriations are not used revert to either being
redirected by Aldermanic approval to other uses for the upcoming fiscal year or the Mayor may assign it of his own choice to
a like use in the upcoming fiscal year. If you look at September 1, 2021 minutes of the Finance meeting at that time that year
none of the escrows were questioned except by myself. My question was why is it that we just paid the final bill on the roof
for 14 Court Street and yet we’re asking to escrow $750,000 for Court Street roof? So we had that discussion at the
September 1, 2021 Finance Committee meeting which you can find the minutes because at that time we had a
transcriptionist. We paid the final bill and the request was for the $750,000 to be put in again. By doing this what is required
is every year these funds that hadn’t been used as expected get looked at again. There is a period when these escrows are
looked at when you can weigh on whether they should be used for the original purpose or whether they should be redirected.

| also want to talk about the press table. | was here at the Infrastructure meeting and | was horrified to see a Board
Chairman humiliate one of our citizens as (inaudible) sat for over two.

Donna Graham, Legislative Affairs Manager

30 seconds
Elizabeth Lu
Did you say 10 seconds?

Donna Graham, Legislative Affairs Manager

30 seconds
Elizabeth Lu

Okay. The Chairman spoke to the gallery and embarrassed Ms. Ortolano just for kicks. It was ridiculous. To me this seems
like a petty issue and just put it back.

Finally President Wilshire, I’m asking you to please get a transcriptionist because my lawyer...

President Wilshire

Your time is up Ms. Lu.
Elizabeth Lu
| can’t finish my sentence?

President Wilshire

No, you’re done.

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