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Finance Committee - 8/16/2017 Page 2
NEW BUSINESS — RESOLUTIONS
R-17-120
Endorsers: Mayor Jim Donchess
Alderman Richard A. Dowd
Alderman-at-Large Michael B. O’Brien, Sr.
Alderman Tom Lopez
Alderman-at-Large Brian S. McCarthy
Alderman-at-Large Lori Wilshire
RELATIVE TO AN AGREEMENT FOR COUNSEL SERVICES CONCERNING POTENTIAL
OPIOID LITIGATION
MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO TABLE UNTIL THE NEXT REGULARLY SCHEDULED FINANCE
MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 6, 2017
MOTION CARRIED
NEW BUSINESS — ORDINANCES — None
TABLED IN COMMITTEE
MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO TAKE FROM THE TABLE THE CONTRACT AWARD FOR
ROADSIDE AND TRAIL MOWING
MOTION CARRIED

From: Dan Kooken, Purchasing Manager
Re: Contract Award for Roadside and Trail Mowing (Value: Not-to-Exceed $26,000)

MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO
KOHL FARMS IN AN AMOUNT NOT-TO-EXCEED $26,000. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 177,
PARKS AND RECREATION; GENERAL OPERATING AND TRUST FUNDS; PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
($22,000); AND, DEPARTMENT 169 WASTEWATER; 55, OTHER PURCHASED SERVICES ($4,000)

ON THE QUESTION

Chairman Cookson

| had some questions from the last meeting. I’m not sure if you received a copy of those concerns that were
raised or if | need to repeat those for you this evening.

Superintendent Caggiano

It would probably be better if you could repeat them if you don’t mind.

Chairman Cookson

I'd be happy to. | was hoping you’d have something prepared to show us this evening.
Superintendent Caggiano

| do. | have a list of the sites if you want to see them. | can pass them around.
Chairman Cookson

For Alderman Siegel and maybe some of the other members that weren’t present at the last meeting, | did
raise some questions with regard to the $26,000. | know its small money at the end of the day but | was

Finance Committee - 8/16/2017 Page 3

concerned about what are we doing. How are we maintaining? Why are we waiting until mid-September/
October to do this and how far is it going to get us the $26,000? | really wanted to understand what the
agreement is with Kohl Farms. How many pieces of equipment are they providing? How much manpower are
they providing and how far does $26,000 get us? That’s the context.

Superintendent Caggiano

We've been doing this program annually since before | started working for the city. The contractors have
changed but 80 percent of the time Kohl Farms has been the low bid. We have had others. This is all based
several things. In general, and I’m talking generally now, it’s about four weeks’ worth of work for one machine
to get all the work done. Then that person returns in June to do high profile areas such as the Cherrywood
bike path, the Gilson Road bike path, some of the trails in Mine Falls where we have a lot of activity. Some of
the sites are required — the levy in the Mine Falls canal fall under the guidance of the Army Corps. of Engineers
- and we’re required to do this mowing on a yearly basis in order to remain compliant with the requirements of
the levy maintenance agreements. Then the rest of it is large roadside mowing.

Its intersections where the complaints are starting to roll in now. It’s really life safety issues that we run into
there. We get calls from the PD, from Fire, and from residents saying | can’t pull out. The amount of work or
length that it takes varies from year to year. Last year | did not spend all the $26,000. We had a drought in the
summer so the growth wasn’t as aggressive. This year if you remember back to May, it rained five days out of
seven every week in May. The growth this year is tremendous. There’s a lot of roadside growth. The calls
have been coming in since the middle of July. People call. They don’t want anybody to get hurt. It’s a
program that we need to do. It’s a program that we aren’t’ able to do in house. We don’t have the machinery
and | would never have the manpower to be able to pull this off in that short amount of time even if | did have
the machinery at this point with the staff that we have.

Chairman Cookson
What is your current staff look like?

Superintendent Caggiano

Right now | have 18 full time employee slots and those are labor people not supervisors/administrators. That
number hasn’t changed since well before | came on board - 18 years. We've added fields. We've added
irrigation system. We've added parks. I’ve done man hour reports for the BPW, and it shows very strongly
that in order to maintain everything, we’re six full time units short in order to get that done. We hire extra
summer people when we can but that doesn’t always work because most of them are college people and they
go back to school. To try to find summer employees or seasonal employees that will stick around through
October/November is challenging. The rate he charges at $65.00 an hour, he’s $25 lower than most of the
bids that come in. It’s a good value. He works hard. He stores the machine right at the park and he shows up
every day and off he goes. He pretty much knows the list by heart at this point.

Chairman Cookson
So the list doesn’t change?
Superintendent Caggiano

It will change slightly but most of those spots are annual spots that we have to do. We just got one called in
today: Pondview Circle. Pondview Circle is off of Tinker Road. You have that bad curve there. You got to cut
it back otherwise God forbid somebody gets hurt there. | understand the committee has questions and I’m
more than happy to answer them but the fear that | have is his rate is very attractive. If he goes to another
community, we’re going to be in a very serious situation if we don’t start this mowing in September because we
won't get to it in time. Like | said, | don’t want to see anybody get hurt pulling out of the road.

Finance Committee - 8/16/2017 Page 4
Chairman Cookson

| understand Superintendent Caggiano. We were purposeful with our timing because this wasn’t going to be
accepted by a full Board until the first meeting in September anyway. We were purposeful in saying okay let’s
hold this for two weeks, bring you in for the questions so we can get answers to them, and then have it signed
off so that you could get it done. The question is you’ve got a single person with a single piece of equipment
and you have no backup. If that piece of equipment fails, or if that person gets sick, or injured, or hurt, what
happens?

Superintendent Caggiano

It’s all set. He’s not a sole operator. He has additional pieces that he puts out on the road. He would have to
work it out and swap things back and forth.

Chairman Cookson

All right so his business has multiple pieces of equipment so that you wouldn’t be stuck behind an 8-ball if
something were to happen.

Superintendent Caggiano

On worst case scenario if | had to, then | rent a machine and | figure out a way to get it done either on straight
time or overtime if | had to.

Chairman Cookson

| have additional questions but I’ll yield the floor if anybody else has questions.

Alderman Siegel

Just a comment. There were no other bids for this.

Superintendent Caggiano

No he signed a three year bid that we went out with last year. This is his last year on that.
Alderman Wilshire

| don’t have any questions either but | think this is money well spent and kudos for finding someone who would
do it for that rate.

Chairman Cookson

Any additional comments or questions? Superintendent Caggiano quick question going back a couple of
years. So help me understand, before | do that, let me just ask you what are the role and responsibilities of
these 18 full time laborers typically? Can you generalize their responsibilities?

Superintendent Caggiano

They’re responsible regarding this contract, is that what you’re asking me? I’m not clear.

Chairman Cookson

No in general what are they responsible for? Are they responsible for the upkeep of fields...?

Finance Committee - 8/16/2017 Page 5

Superintendent Caggiano

They’re responsible for the upkeep of the parks and the public spaces that we take care in the city. Not all
parks. We do the monuments, City Hall.

Chairman Cookson
Exactly. So you have other responsibilities beyond the parks.

Superintendent Caggiano

Correct.

Chairman Cookson

Okay. Do those responsibilities include mowing, weeding, weed whacking, any of...

Superintendent Caggiano

Yes.

Chairman Cookson

Any that goes beyond the parks correct? So you might mow City Hall, or you might...

Superintendent Caggiano

| mow City Hall every week. We do certain island — the Somerset islands need to be mowed. We do
Bergeron’s alley over here a little trimming, the Water Street ramp. We do new areas now that we’ve acquired
rave walks, the west side of the Main Street Bridge that kind of goes down to Franklin Street, and things

Chairman Cookson

So you're able to maintain those areas with your current workforce of 18 full time laborers and your current set
of equipment that you have.

Superintendent Caggiano

No.

Chairman Cookson

No? Talk to me about that.
Superintendent Caggiano

We barely get by. A couple weeks of rain and we’re in trouble. We've added areas of responsibility — new
parks. We've installed irrigation system which increases your mowing. | think we’re over 40 irrigation systems
now. We've built beautiful facilities - Legacy Playground went on line last year, the Holocaust Memorial,
Rotary Common, Park Social over on Pine. So we’ve added all these areas but we’ve never added people.
How we’ve done that is throughout the years we’ve invested in technology. We have better equipment. Some
large mowers. We've trained them a little better but we’re at that point of the bubble where either we’re not
going to be able to take any more on or — we don’t want to lower the standards. | think the things look [pretty

Finance Committee - 8/16/2017 Page 6

good. If you go out on Main Street, | think Main Street looks pretty good. Most of the parks look good and so
it's hard to lower the standards. The employees want things to look it too.

Chairman Cookson

Fantastic. We want things to look good as well Superintendent Caggiano. | don’t think anyone is questioning
that. You spoke earlier. If you had six full time units would those six units of full time laborers they would
assist you in being able to keep up with the demand that you currently have or would you still experience
difficulties with five days of rain and...

Superintendent Caggiano

No that would allow us. That’s like | guess utopia if | was to have six. We'd be able to be a lot more
responsive and we'd be able to get to a lot of these areas in a little more timely fashion.

Chairman Cookson

But those six units would cost the city a little bit more than $26,000?
Superintendent Caggiano

Oh yeah. Even at our lowest level, | think they make $21 an hour.
Chairman Cookson

So this $26,000 for a single person and a piece of equipment equates to about 400 working hours? 26,000
divided by 65 is 400 hours.

Superintendent Caggiano

Yes. Not all in the fall. Like | said, some of the high profile spots get done in the spring as well. They get done
twice a year.

Chairman Cookson

So the list that you’ve provided us this evening on this sheet of paper which has 67 on the north end and 38
locations on the south end, this is the fall. This is the September mowing list?

Superintendent Caggiano

Correct.

Chairman Cookson

In the springtime, this $26,000 covers the springtime mowing?
Superintendent Caggiano

Yes.

Chairman Cookson

Then what’s the focus in springtime?

Finance Committee - 8/16/2017 Page 7

Superintendent Caggiano

The high profile spots that are on that list. Off the top of my head...
Chairman Cookson

So they hit some of these again?

Superintendent Caggiano

Twice. That’s what | said.

Chairman Cookson

Not all of them?

Superintendent Caggiano

No.

Chairman Cookson

You've got the Broad Street Parkway as a new linear mile.

Superintendent Caggiano

That’s on the list. We don’t mow that on a weekly basis.

Chairman Cookson

Why not?

Superintendent Caggiano

We don't have the equipment or the people to get that done.

Chairman Cookson

I’m most familiar and | raised two specific points on Broad Street and they’re on here. We've talked about
Broad Street at the intersection of Coliseum. We've talked about Broad Street in front of Broad Street
Elementary School.

Superintendent Caggiano

Upstone.

Chairman Cookson

Correct. That’s at the intersection with Upstone.

Superintendent Caggiano

| also have Marie Ave. on there that you’ve inquired about. There was a little incident there a few years back.

Finance Committee - 8/16/2017 Page 8

Chairman Cookson

Any you maintain that very well. Marie Avenue because you just brought that up, Marie Avenue was just
mowed recently. It’s not waiting for this particular engagement.

Superintendent Caggiano

Only the edge we keep clean. It is going to get that particular engagement. Down Marie Ave., into Lincoln,
trim that whole fence, go all the way down by the river, pop out, flip over the guard rail on the parking lot on
Coliseum Ave. and clean all that up by the river. Otherwise, we get trash and sometimes people might be
making residences there.

Chairman Cookson

So let me take you outside of Lincoln Park now and let’s go up to Upstone and the Broad Street Elementary
School. That one was just called in recently and | know that the School Department was there and they did a
wonderful job on the grounds but they left all the weeds around the guardrail. Your crew came out — I’m
assuming it was your crew. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Superintendent Caggiano

Actually we couldn't do it, and | believe Assistant Director Patrician had the Street Department go and pull up a
few people and do that job.

Chairman Cookson

So they did it. They did a fine job. Why isn’t there more continuity between what the school does and
maintenance of their grounds and why wouldn’t they go ahead with their equipment and finish off the rest of
that property?

Superintendent Caggiano

| can’t answer what the schools does or doesn’t do.

Chairman Cookson

| Know. | mean I’ve been on the Board for almost 10 years now and | remember where we used to have Public
Works be responsible for this path of mowing and school would be coming down the other side.

Superintendent Caggiano

It’s not like that very much. If you look right now, we’re all working together. We have people from the Street
Department, people from my department, people from the School Department are over at Charlotte Ave. right
now doing renovations over there. We work together. We share equipment. There’s no...

Chairman Cookson

So you said you don’t have the equipment to do this. What kind of equipment is it?

Superintendent Caggiano

They call it a “frail mower on an arm” that goes on a very large tractor that reaches over. It’s probably an
$80,000 to $100,000 piece of equipment that gives you about 15 to 16 feet of reach off the tractor.

Finance Committee - 8/16/2017 Page 9
Chairman Cookson

All right so it’s an extendable arm that goes over guardrails and such. Does that piece of equipment exist in
the city anywhere at all?

Superintendent Caggiano

No.

Chairman Cookson

So it’s nothing that you can share with another department?

Superintendent Caggiano

No.

Chairman Cookson

But like | said, some of this work gets done prior to bringing this...

Superintendent Caggiano

Minimum. Very minimum. If we get a call from police or fire and they say Nick you’ve got to get to this, then
that means | have to go there and look at it. I’ve got to pull somebody off something else if it’s a life safety
issue. We have to take care of it right away.

Chairman Cookson

| have other questions but | think you’ve done a fine job in answering those that I’ve asked.

Superintendent Caggiano

You can e-mail any additional things.

Chairman Cookson

| Know and | can call you as well. | know that you'll be there to answer them. It wasn’t my intention to put you
on the spot this evening. | was concerned about — | think some of this work gets done or | don’t understand
why it has to wait until September to get done. The other example | had was on Broad Street and Coliseum.
It’s just completely overgrown and if we would make an effort to have regular maintenance worth instead of
waiting until these weeds are small trees in are 8 feet tall, it seems to me like we might not have to do this

annual program or it might not be as extensive as it is.

Superintendent Caggiano

Not to be funny but you have to wait until the growth is there before you can cut it back. You can’t run that
machine in May, June or even July.

Chairman Cookson

But Superintendent Caggiano if it’s not 8 feet tall, you don’t need that machine.

Finance Committee - 8/16/2017 Page 10
Superintendent Caggiano

You do because it’s not turf grass. Its brambles. Its pucker brush. It’s rasberries. It’s bittersweet.
Chairman Cookson

If you wait until the weed is an inch, you probably need that piece of equipment.

Superintendent Caggiano

I’m not here to argue about the merits of when to do it. | think it’s a good program. | think it’s very cost effective
and sure if we had another department that could go out and mow all these ancillary spots, we’d never need
this but we don’t have that unfortunately.

Chairman Cookson

So | will ask the question now because a couple of years ago when we were working on sidewalks, who’s
responsible for providing man hours and labor hours for the sidewalks for brick, concrete, and who provided
that expertise and service?

Superintendent Caggiano

The Street Department does that work. | don’t do that work.

Chairman Cookson

Nobody from Parks and Rec. provided any support?

Superintendent Caggiano

Working on sidewalks? No.

Chairman Cookson

So we were told at that point in time that even with those employees contributing labor hours towards the
sidewalks that it would not have repercussions on their day to day activities or responsibilities. They were
going to be able to maintain and keep up with the regular responsibilities. Are you familiar with that?
Superintendent Caggiano

A little bit but | think that’s a question that should be geared toward the Director and not...

Chairman Cookson

Very good so | will gear that toward the Director. | appreciate your time this evening Mr. Caggiano. Any
additional questions or comments?

Alderman Clemons

Mr. Caggiano thank you very much for your service to the City and thank you very much for your expertise. |
appreciate it.

Finance Committee - 8/16/2017 Page 11
Alderman Caron

| Know that there’s a lot of pieces to this process but we do need that outside source. | don’t think the city is
going to invest in $100,000 and $150,000 machine that’s only needed for a certain amount of time. It’s not like
we’re mowing the regular grass, and a playground, or a park, or something like that. | think the money that it
costs us to do this twice a year | think is important and it keeps the staff to do the daily operations that have to
take place within Parks and Rec. Mr. Caggiano is right. We have always been short staffed. We get more
and more things to do because we add facilities, open spaces as you can see with the rail trails and things like
that. | think this is a good thing and | think it gave a great explanation and a list of those areas that we needed
to have an idea. I’m going to vote for this. Thank you.

Alderman Wilshire

Just a last comment. | know we always ask our departments to do more with less but we ask you do to more
and give you more. So thank you for what you do.

Alderman Siegel

I’d note that even if we owned the piece of equipment given the number of hours it takes to do this, it’s still
cheaper to hire this outside source to get this work done. | think this is a real value for us. It’s a specialized
piece of equipment. The person knows the job. | think it makes sense to do this.

Chairman Cookson

Any additional questions or comments? Superintendent Caggiano do we know how many linear miles this
represents?

Superintendent Caggiano

No.

MOTION CARRIED

RECORD OF EXPENDITURES

MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL THAT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE HAS COMPLIED WITH THE CITY
CHARTER AND ORDINANCES PERTAINING TO THE RECORD OF EXPENDITURES FOR THE PERIOD
JULY 28, 2017 TO AUGUST 10, 2017

MOTION CARRIED

PUBLIC COMMENT - None

GENERAL DISCUSSION

Chairman Cookson

What was your expectation this evening with regard to coming?

Noelle Osborne, Plant Operations Supervisor, Wastewater

My expectation was to come and bring to you an update on the major projects that are going on at Wastewater
and maybe a slight forecasting on the FY18 expenditures.