9/20/2021;
Questions?
14
SPECIAL BOARD OF ALDERMEN
SEPTEMBER 21, 2021
7:00 p.m. Aldermanic Chamber and via Zoom
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PRESIDENT LORI WILSHIRE CALLS ASSEMBLY TO ORDER
PRAYER OFFERED BY CITY CLERK SUSAN LOVERING
PLEDGE TO THE FLAG LED BY ALDERMAN ERNEST JETTE
ROLL CALL
DISCUSSION
Discussion with New Hampshire Retirement System
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
Motion to Forward to the Ballot the Citizens Petition Relative to a Citizens Petition Seeking to Amend the City
Charter Relative to the Nomination and the Confirmation of Appointments to the Nashua Board of Police
Commissioners
ADJOURNMENT
A special meeting of the Board of Aldermen was held Thursday, September 16, 2021, at 7:20 p.m. in the
aldermanic chamber as well as via Zoom teleconference.
President Lori Wilshire presided; Deputy City Clerk Allison Waite recorded.
Prayer was offered by City Clerk Susan Lovering; Alderman Patricia Klee led in the Pledge to the Flag.
To join by Zoom — please refer to the agenda or the website for the meeting link and telephone number.
Let’s start the meeting by taking a roll call attendance. When each member states their presence, please
indicate if participating via Zoom state why you are not meeting in person and whether there is anyone in the
room with you during this meeting which is required under the Right-To-Know Law.
Deputy City Clerk Waite called the roll and asked them to state the reason he or she could not attend,
confirmed that they could hear the proceedings, and stated who was present with him or her.
The roll call was taken with 11 (9 in person, 2 via Zoom) members of the Board of Aldermen present:
Alderman Michael B. O’Brien, Sr., Alderman Patricia Klee, Alderwoman Shoshanna Kelly (via Zoom),
Alderman Richard A. Dowd, Alderman June M. Caron, Alderman Thomas Lopez (arrived at 8:07 PM),
Alderman David C. Tencza, Alderwoman Elizabeth Lu, Alderman Ernest Jette, Alderman Jan Schmidt,
Alderman Skip Cleaver (via Zoom), Alderman Linda Harriott-Gathright, Alderman Wilshire.
Alderman Benjamin Clemons and Alderman Brandon Michael Laws were recorded absent.
Mayor James W. Donchess, and Corporation Counsel Steven A. Bolton were also in attendance.
PUBLIC HEARING
RELATIVE TO A CITIZENS PETITION SEEKING TO AMEND THE CITY CHARTER RELATIVE TO THE
NOMINATION AND THE CONFIRMATION OF APPOINTMENTS TO THE NASHUA BOARD OF POLICE
COMMISSIONERS
President Wilshire
Mayor or Alderman Klee who’s going to give the rundown on this?
Alderman Klee
I’d be happy to do that. Thank you very much Madam President. This is a citizens petition that was based
on the legislation that had originally come forward to the Board of Aldermen in early spring. The concept of
this is to bring back the appointment of the Commissioners to the local decision by the Mayor and the
President of the Board of Aldermen. It will increase it to 3 to 5 Commissioners. The Mayor will appoint 3.
They'll do the first, the third and the fifth appointments. The Board of Aldermen President will do the
second and the fourth.
The concept of this is to, as | said, to have five. It will approved by both the Board of Aldermen and as all
appointments the Personnel/Administrative Committee will do the vetting, and do the interviewing, and so
on. They will make a recommendation and it will go back to the Board of Aldermen for a final vote.
Another point of reference here is that the comment of removal of any Commissioner is also part of this but
it must be voted on by the Board of Aldermen not just a single person saying we no longer want that
Commissioner. It still has to go through the Board of Aldermen for that removal of that particular person. |
think that’s basically it. | won’t go through the genesis of anything of it just to describe the ballot question
as itis.
Special Board of Aldermen 09-16-2021 Page 2
Alderman Caron
Thank you Madam President. Because we have a large number of participants that I’m sure want to speak
in favor or in opposition of this legislation, I’d like to limit the speaking portion to 3 minutes per person and
then when we get to the end if we have time, we can have people come back if they have added
information they'd like to present. I’m making a motion.
MOTION B ALDERMAN CARON TO LIMIT THE SPEAKING PORTION TO THREE (3) MINUTES PER
PERSON BY ROLL CALL
Yea: Alderman O’Brien, Alderman Klee, Alderwoman Kelly, Alderman Dowd,
Alderman Caron, Alderman Jette, Alderman Schmidt, Alderman Cleaver,
Alderman Harriott-Gathright, Alderman Wilshire. 10
Nay: Alderwoman Lu 1
MOTION CARRIED
President Wilshire
Everyone will be limited to 3 minutes because we do have a large audience this evening. | think it’s fair to
everyone that we limit this for 3 minutes.
TESTIMONY IN FAVOR
Sonia Prince
I’m Sonia Prince, 49 Tufts Drive. 1891 was a very long time ago. | prefer not have people from
Manchester, Rye, Concord, Union, and Milford, New Hampshire, decide who our Police Commissioners
should be. As for the false info. being spread about this new Charter change by some members of the
Police Department and a few Aldermen, if you read the petition it clearly states that any elected city Mayor
cannot remove anyone from the Police Commission without the approval of the 15 elected members of the
Board of Aldermen. That’s 15 sets of watchful eyes. Anyone who reads the petition can verify this and
debunk the ridiculous rumors intended to spread fear over a Charter change that has happened in every
single New Hampshire town and city before us.
This petition also includes wording that prevents any Police Commission’s immediate family or a member of
their household to be the Mayor or a sitting alderman or alderwoman during that time. Example the reason
this was added is to avoid conflict of interest. Example — if they voted on the police budget that could be
viewed as a conflict. We currently have a former police officer who is a sitting Nashua Police
Commissioner today. He is married to a current sitting Alderwoman in Ward 6. This petition and Charter
change would assure that this type of conflict of interest possibilities could never be repeated in the future.
Example — especially if maybe that former police officer/commissioner is still receiving any kind of benefits
from the Police Department via something like a pension, dental, or health benefits.
If you look at some of the supporters who want to maintain the existing Good Ol’ Boys status quo, there are
people like former Mayor who is ordered to pay $270,000 fine by the SCC. Another citizen who’s obsessed
with property tax assessments who was charged recently with trespassing at City Hall.
Then you have people who don’t even live in Nashua testifying on their behalf to keep the status quo. Also
people from outside the City of Nashua who are sitting on the stacked bogus so-called “Study Committee”
that was created at the 11" hour instead of in May. If you are tired of the fox watching the hen house, if
you want more transparency, representation, please vote to allow this...
Special Board of Aldermen 09-16-2021 Page 3
Alderman O’Brien
Thirty seconds.
Sonia Prince
... petition question to be voted on in November and allow the people of Nashua to decide if they want to be
Police Commissioners to be appointed publicly, vetted in public, and interviewed by our 15 local officials
from all 9 wards. Every city and town has opted for local control before us and many have CALEA
certifications just like Nashua. The false claims that any of these cities would suddenly be deemed
dangerous or corrupt overnight is laughable. You have to wonder...
Alderman O’Brien
Time.
Sonia Prince
...why the Chief of Police would be...
President Wilshire
Sonia time is up.
Sonia Prince
I’m good. Thank you.
Raymond Newman
My name is Raymond Newman and | live at 25 Charlotte Avenue. | just want to take a look at what the
Resolutions actually does and some of the details that had just been described. The primary ones are it
changes the number from 3 to 5 and it changed the appointment from the Governor to the Mayor and the
President of the Board of Aldermen. All that’s done with the approval of the Board of Aldermen.
Appointing and removing police officers, making and enforcing rules, control over police buildings, and all
the other rules and regulations related to the Police Commission remain in the Charter. This resolution is
not about operational control, budget control, a power grab, destruction of the Police Department, or any of
the other scare tactics intended to delay or defeat this resolution. It’s about local control and the
appointment process. Since it has to have the advice of the Board of Aldermen, that is a safeguard and the
similar safeguard works if you had a corrupt Governor. The Council has to approve it. The safeguard for
the city may be stronger than what is currently in effect since it only takes three votes to approve a change
as it currently exists and it would require 8 people to vote along with the Mayor if those were to be changed.
Now there is a Nashua Police official that said as reported in the Telegraph, “They can’t say one thing
wrong about our Police Department”. | agree 100 percent with that observation. This resolution is not
about something being wrong with the Nashua Police Department. The Nashua Police Department is
excellent and this resolution will not change the Commissioners interactions with the department or affect
daily operations. It is about the Commissioner appointment process only. Bring local control to Nashua like
all the other cities in New Hampshire. Local control of our Police Commission appointments will improve
the appointment process and will help to bring more transparency and accountability to the City of Nashua.
Alderman O’Brien
Thirty second.
2. Paragraph IV (B) (1) shall be MODIFIED as follows;
B. Limits of All Payments
1. The ENGINEER hereby assures the OWNER and agrees that the following fee for his services
(exclusive of surveys, borings, and certain special services which follow) in connection with the
preparation of final plans, specifications, and contract documents and other work as generally described
under I(A) is adequate to complete the assignment and shall not exceed:
To be determined Dollars ($TBD) for the Dry Well Valve and Pipe Replacement
Engineering Design; and
Seventy-Eight Thousand Three Hundred and 00/100 Dollars ($78,300.00) for the
Wash Press Chute Modifications and the Screening Garage Odor Engineering Design.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto have made and executed this AMENDMENT to said AGREEMENT as of
the day and year first above written.
ENGINEER:
WRIGHT-PIERCE
By:
(Authorized Representative *)
Date:
OWNER:
CITY OF NASHUA
By:
(Authorized Representative *)
Date:
APPROVED:
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES
Water Division
By:
(Authorized Representative **)
Date:
Signatures should be supported by appropriate document.
It is agreed that as an act in furtherance of its statutory authority to approve engineering agreements for treatment works, the
DIVISION's approval does not impose any contractual obligation or liability on the State of New Hampshire, the Department of
Environmental Services or the Division.
Page 3 of 3
Special Board of Aldermen 09-16-2021 Page 4
Raymond Newman
Please support this resolution
President Wilshire
I’m going to call for one more in favor and then I’m going to switch to opposition.
Sherry Dutzy
My name is Sherry Dutzy. | live at 18 Swart Terrace. | am in favor of changing the City Charter to allow
Police Commissioners to be appointed locally and increase the Commission from three to five. The
argument that this will politicize the Commission is unfounded in my opinion. In the past, we have had at
least on Commissioner appointed by a Governor after doing a fundraiser for that Governor. If that is not
political, | don’t know what is. We've had a Police Commissioner whose real estate dealings were highly
questionable but because of his high profile, he sailed through the process. I’m not saying that either of
these gentlemen were not good commissioners but to say that the current system is perfect is a stretch.
The Zoning Board and Planning Board members are appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by this Board.
They make important decisions that shape our city. No one suggests that these appointments should be
made in Concord due to politicization. Why won’t it work for the Police Commission? Let’s face it. No
system is perfect but if we elect representatives of character, and | believe this Board is such, who truly
serve the citizens of Nashua, | believe that the proposed system can be an improvement by adding diverse
voices. It certainly won’t be any worse than what we have now. There are over 300 commissions in the
State where the appointments are made by the Executive Council and Governor. How much time and
attention do you think is paid to each nominee? Unless it is a high level State appointment like
Attorney/General, | think it is very little. How many people on Zoom and how many in this meeting have
actually attended an Executive Council meeting for a nominee? | would say none. Having the appointment
made locally will provide more transparency and scrutiny by Nashuans and | think that is a good thing.
President Wilshire
For those of you on Zoom, I’m going to call for testimony in opposition and | will get back to testimony in
favor after we switch it up a bit. So I’m going to call for testimony in opposition at this point.
TESTIMONY IN OPPOSITION
Mike Soucy
Thank you. Thank you Board of Aldermen. I’m not sure | have any reason to thank you today Mayor but
thank you for your service. You're going to hear a lot of why this is a bad idea. I’m not going to discuss
that today. You're going to hear a lot of it. What! want to talk about is the Charter section A-141. The
Charter is very, very clear in its language.
Alderman Klee
Madam President his name and address.
Mike Soucy
I’m sorry. Mike Soucy, 3 Roseann Circle and I’m speaking today as a lifelong resident, and past Alderman,
and retired Nashua cop.
So here’s what the Charter says, “At any regular municipal election in any of the following cities —
Manchester, Nashua, Portsmouth, Laconia, Somersworth, or Berlin if a majority of the governing body of
Special Board of Aldermen 09-16-2021 Page 5
such city so votes or 10 percent of registered voters files a petition so requesting the following special
question shall be presented to the voters of said election” and we all know what the question is. We have
67,249 registered voters here in the City of Nashua, times ten percent, is 6,725 petitions that you needed to
have filed. That wasn’t done. Instead, the goalpost was moved which typically happens when you try to
get an agenda through that you can’t meet the requirement. I’m guessing you probably used the last
municipal election of 10,265 people, times 15 percent, which would have been the 1,539 but that’s not what
the Charter says. You want to change the Charter, you’ve got to go by the Charter language. Ten percent
of the registered voters. So this should not be on the ballot. | want to thank the Board of Aldermen for
tabling this. | want to also thank everybody here in the room that this is not a party issue. It’s not. It’s not
Republican versus Democrat. We have prominent voices on both sides of the aisle either in favor or
against. So thank you for that. This is not a Democratic issue because our Mayor is a Democrat. Okay.
It’s not. This is all on him. He puts it out there that this is a citizen driven issue. No. He’s in the driver’s
seat. He drove it. He created the problem and he’s now trying to come up with a solution.
I’ve been friends with the Mayor for a long time. That probably won’t change but the one thing that will
change and | regret to say that | voted for you in the past and | will never do so again.
Alderman O’Brien
Thirty seconds.
Mike Soucy
Thank you.
Paul Garant
My name is Paul Garant and | live at 163 Harris Road. I’m also a sitting member of the Nashua Board of
Fire Commissioners. The position I’ve held for 18 years. | can’t speak with a mic with a diaper on my face.
I’ve held the position for 18 years. Having served through a term of three Mayors — Bernie Street,
Donnalee Lozeau, and the current Mayor Jim Donchess. As such, I’ve witnessed three different
approaches and the basic fundamental management of city styles from the corner office. Management
styles and approaches that if not for the interposition and independence of the Board of Fire
Commissioners from the direct intervention of City Hall would have resulted in an inconsistent approach to
the execution of basic responsibilities and of a fundamental public safety agency.
While the Board of Fire Commissioners of the five elected members is cleared from political inference of
City Hall and is the key to success of the department’s ability to manage and implement its programs and to
provide a responsive fire suppression and rescue service to a consistently growing community. The
independence from political pressure and influence of City Hall is the same freedom that operates that
benefits the Nashua police as a result of the interdependent extra municipal selection and appointment
process for members of the Police Commission. This independence from the political pressure has
assured the integrity of investigations involving local politicians.
One of the arguments and perhaps the argument which has given most attention by the Mayor and the
band of supporters that is going door to door securing signatures for the position to get this question on the
ballot is the lack of local control in the process of selecting and appointing Police Commissioners. The sad
part of the argument is that the claim that there’s no local involvement is in effect misleading and fails to
recognize the significant influence of the Mayor and the Board of Aldermen can bring to bear in the process
if they so desire. The Governor’s Council and the Governor’s Councilor, and the Governor do not pick
names out of the air...
Alderman O’Brien
Thirty seconds.
Special Board of Aldermen 09-16-2021 Page 6
Paul Garant
...for consideration. In fact, the Governor’s Council member represents the city is the appropriate place for
the voice of the Mayor. Mayor Lozeau’s through political influence used this approach to block the
reappointment of a long-serving and dedicated Commissioner who vigorously defended the approach of the
Commissioners and as a result have become a political sour under the Mayor’s saddle. The Mayor and
this Board...
Alderman O’Brien
Time.
Paul Garant
... thank you. | will recognize you Chief and take your orders.
Alderman O’Brien
Thank you Commissioner.
President Wilshire
I’m going to call for testimony in opposition once again.
Ken Siegel
Good evening. My name is Ken Siegel, 637 Lake Street, Haverhill, Massachusetts. Former Aldermen. I’m
sorry that I’m not local my affection for this city doesn’t have geographical boundaries and neither does the
truth and facts. So my purpose here is to debunk some of the things that have been said that are just
patently false. The Mayor has claimed that if there was an issue with the Board of Aldermen and the Mayor
that the federal government or federal agents would investigate that not Nashua PD. In particular, that’s
not correct accordingly to Tim Hefferan and the Mayor has not privy to the inner workings of the Nashua PD
and how decisions are made.
The original case against the three aldermen that went to federal prison was started because of an
investigation into Alderman Kuchinski who took tax money from people who didn’t pay their taxes from
Gianni’s Pizza. That was a strictly local investigation. If that was the extent of it, it would have stayed local
and never involved the federal government. | don’t know how the Mayor came to his conclusion about the
FBI being a principle investigator in that case. Again, according to Tim Hefferan those records have been
sealed since 1993. They’re in the State House. | would trust Tim Hefferan who is the lead investigator
when he said that the vast majority of the reporting and investigation is done by the Nashua PD. The
reason the federal government became involved was under the advice of the Attorney General of New
Hampshire at the time and also the reason that federal charges were pursued was because the federal
Statutes had much more teeth than the State statutes. So it was a practical matter. It had nothing to do
with whether the FBI was a principle investigator and who would ultimately lead an investigation into
corruption in the city. This was a very, very real problem in the ‘90s. Mayor you were the Mayor in 1990
when this happened and Rob Wagner was the Mayor in 1993 when the investigation became public and
was reported in the Telegraph. It was a huge deal. To say it was not, it’s been blown out of proportion. It
was making a mountain out of a molehill not big deal is shocking because at the time it was such an
incredibly huge story that even people who are generally apathetic...
Alderman O’Brien
Thirty seconds.
Special Board of Aldermen 09-16-2021 Page 7
Ken Siegel
... knew what was going on. So that is false. I’m sorry that that mythology is being propagated. That’s all |
have to say. I’m sorry | don’t live here anymore and that affects people’s judgements about whether things
are true or false but nothing I’ve said isn’t true and so don’t shoot the messenger. Thank you.
President Wilshire
Next person who would like to speak in opposition and then I'll switch back.
Victoria Chesterly
My name is Victoria Chesterly. | live at 15 Lutheran Drive. My Dad was a Police Commissioner in Nashua
for 13 years. Unfortunately he’s no longer with us. | would like to address some of the arguments that
have been put forward. We need local control, transparency, diversity. Love the buzz words. Yes, those
are all great things but keeping local politics out of the Nashua Police Department doesn’t mean giving up
local control. Our Commissioners all live in Nashua. That’s local. Transparency is good too. A lot of
information is already available. I’m not sure what transparency people are talking about. Diversity on the
Commission would be ideal but that would require more people of diverse backgrounds to have the
necessary qualifications plus the interest in serving. Society has come a long way in giving people of
diverse backgrounds the opportunity to acquire the necessary qualifications but those individuals have to
express an interest.
One woman has served on the Commission but how many have applied? We don’t know. Adding seats to
the Commission could open up diversity which would be great but that doesn’t mean you have to throw out
the whole process of appointing Commissioners.
The argument of all the other towns are doing it — this sounds like all the other kids are doing it why can’t I?
This argument doesn’t get teenagers anywhere and it certainly should never be the reason for changing
something that already works well. It makes no sense to change the way we do things just because other
cities and towns do things differently. Nashua is not the same as other cities and towns. We’re located
right on the border and not far from Lowell and Lawrence. People can get into Nashua and get out really
fast. We need the best police department we can possibly have to keep the crime rate down and our
citizens protected. | read this one in something recently.
Having the Governor and Executive Council appoint the Police Commissioners is like having the Chinese
government appoint the Mayor of Shanghai. Really? Come on. That's...
Alderman O’Brien
Thirty seconds.
Victoria Chesterly
...a false equivalency. It makes no sense. The situations are not equal. The Commission works well now.
I’d like to see it stay working well.
President Wilshire
I’m going to go back to testimony in favor.
TESTIMONY IN FAVOR
