> CITY OF NASHUA
RECOVERY FRIENDLY
WORKPLACE DESIGNATION!
Board of Aldermen 08-10-2021 Page 22
So | do believe that by improperly counseling us at that time this got rushed through when a more accurate answer would
have allowed us to fully talk about it among ourselves and before we had claimed it was necessary and before we had
asked the public to come with the information that they then had and state their perspective. | think it was wrong to do it.
| feel that that rushed the process. Thank you.
Alderman Clemons
Thank you Madam President. | think back in Nashua’s history in the last 30 years of the referendums that we’ve had on
the ballot for various things whether it be to change the Charter or ask the public opinion. The most infamous of them all
was probably the spending cap. It had the largest ramifications but even that issue wasn’t rushed. That was issue was
discussed, it was vetted, and it was voted on by the people of Nashua. Think about the Broad Street Parkway. That
issue was discussed well. There was plenty of community meetings. Mayor Davidson at the time put that through with
the Board of Aldermen and that was a referendum that passed. Things changed. | was elected on the Board. | tried to
get another referendum on that but, again, it was a topic that had been discussed for years, and years, and years, and
years.
Moving forward, we had another Charter change to the spending cap. That was a citizen petition. That one was vetted
and discussed in the community as well. That went forward and actually | believe the Presidential ballot and that passed.
You know then more recently the performing arts center we put on the ballot. While that was a last minute decision to put
that on the ballot, the issue itself had been discussed in the community for almost a year or longer. Whenever we go to
put something on the ballot, it should be something that we’ve had a lot of communication on. That there’s been a lot of
discussion in the community. That there’s been ideas thrown out there for a different ways forward that are the best ways
forward. When you think about the performing arts center, we had studied that for | think over a year maybe two years
looking at different venues and things like that. Finally, the Board of Aldermen came to let’s do the Alec’s Shoe building
and finally that was put forward to the citizens to say is this something you want to do.
You know really this proposal here hasn't had the same kind of vetting. You don’t have the participation of the
community. You certainly didn’t have the aldermen being able to come up and listen to their constituents and propose
different amendments to maybe address some of the concerns that are coming forward. | wanted to get on the record
that | completely support your commission President Wilshire. | think it’s a great idea. | think it’s going to promote
transparency. | think it’s going to bring the parties together. | think it’s going to bring the police, it’s going to bring the
Aldermen, the concerns citizens, business owners to the table to discuss what the issues are and where we need to go
with this. So you know | won't be supporting moving this forward for those reasons because | think there’s more
community dialog to be had on this. | hope that the folks in the community will want to vet and get a better proposal. I’m
not saying that we’re not going to propose the change from having the Governor’s Council appoint this to some sort of
local control but what it is saying is we need to discuss what the best option is. In my view, we’re not putting forward the
best option to the community here because we haven’t engaged them to discuss that. For those reasons, | won't be
supporting this this evening. Thank you.
Alderman Tencza
Thank you Madam President. I’m sympathetic to the arguments on both sides of this issue. | come down very similarly to
Alderman Clemons in particular with current legislation as it’s written. | think there are changes and improvements to be
made to the Police Commission and | think it’s the intent of this legislation to include more diversity both in gender and in
race is | think a goal a lot of probably share on this Board. The language that’s included in this that says that the Police
Commission shall reflect the citizenship of the city could mean very different thing to very different people. Again, that
leaves it up to the Board President and the current Mayor whoever the Mayor is making those appointments to define
what that means. | think we could have a much broader community discussion about how we would like to see or what
types of people we would like to see on the Police Commission because the Police Commission does serve a very, very
important role in the direction of our Police Department. It would be great | think if there were more women on the Police
Commission there may be more officers. There may be more female officers who are in leadership positions at the
Nashua Police Department which would be fantastic for a city. Similarly, more people of color who are part of the
leadership team at the Nashua Police Department. That’s not saying anything about the current or previous
Commissioners but | think that’s just a reality. I’m hoping that this committee can strengthen and improve the proposal.
The other thing | worry about is that | do think this has started a conversation and we have a chance to make some
positive changes. However if this goes on the ballot, | do not believe that there is broad community support for this as it’s
written right now. I’d be concerned that if this proposal goes on the ballot and fails and that kind of kills momentum that
we've started here. | would thank Alderman Caron for her stewardship of this because | believe she did try to work and
work within the timelines because we know this is something that has probably be approved tonight in order to try to get
on the ballot. | believe that she did the best that she could. Our procedural vote to vote that it was necessary from the
Board of Aldermen 08-10-2021 Page 23
beginning | think was a reflection of that understanding of the tight timeline if this was going to be a viable proposal. I’m
hoping we as a community can continue to talk about this and come up with something that’s even stronger and get it on
the ballot in two years. Thank you.
Alderman Klee
Thank you Madam President. I'd like to first clear up something a comment that was made. Nobody was named but
when there was a comment made about an alderwoman had admitted to a hand in crafting the citizen’s petition. | guess
in some respects that kind of true but really only half of the story. I’m assuming that it was me as | helped work with the
original that is before us now which is what the citizens are using. | have had no crafting in the citizen’s petition per say
and the person who spoke has not had a conversation with me. I’m not quite sure. | know that! did not say that to him so
it could not have been misinterpreted.
The other comment about our CALEA accreditation. | think it’s wonderful that we have it. We are one of 13 with CALEA
accreditation throughout our State. If I’ve read the CALEA website right, we have Claremont, Dover, Durham, Goffstown,
Hollis, Hudson, Keene, Laconia, Manchester — much larger than Nashua, Pelham, Portsmouth, Strafford County Sheriff's
Department, and the UNH PD. There are six that are self-assessed: Bedford, Hanover, Londonderry, Newington, Salem,
and Stratham. Again most of those are much smaller than Nashua but Salem is quite up there as is Londonderry but they
are self-assessed.
The reason why | really felt that this was important and to the comments that were made about whether or not there was a
real need, an emergency, and so on, I’m not so sure that there’s an emergency with our current Commission or anything
of that nature but there is an emergency throughout this State. I’ve repeated that | sit on the Municipal and County
Government. We've had a lot of bills that have come through that are trying to take away more and more power from the
municipalities. One of them was defeated and that was what they called a “CACR”. That is basically a change to our
State Constitution and that would have changed drastically what Nashua would have the right to do. | don’t have it in front
of me, and I've tried looking and thought | had printed out, and | don’t have it with me. Basically what it said was that it
would strip the city or municipalities right to make any kind of changes for the well-being and health of its citizens. That
little provision that put in there — | know why they want to strip it out, it was because Nashua put in a mask mandate.
That’s one of the main reasons and that was talked about over, and over, and over again in the committee. That is just
one of many, many bills that are coming through.
So while | don’t see any structural maleficent of any kind of issue within our current Police Department or our current
Commission, | see horrible things coming down the road from Concord. That’s not a political statement. That’s just the
way that things run in the State of New Hampshire. When one group wants to make one change, then out comes another
group to make a change and we go back and forth and | call it the “ultimate tennis match with the citizens of New
Hampshire”. | don’t agree with it but it’s a way that it happens. When | saw that happen and being on the committee that
I’m on up in Concord, | really got nervous. | really got anxious. This was not the first time that | had brought up the
possibility of making this change. As | stated before when | became a freshman alderman, | brought it up. The word “no”
came out very quickly and being a freshman | was not going to basically buck the system sort to speak. | did not have
enough knowledge and I’m smart enough to know sit back, listen, and then ask a lot of questions. Well I’m in almost my
fourth year of being an alderman and my 5" year of being a State Rep. I’ve sat back. I’ve asked questions. While | have
apologized to the Chief for not having gone to him and spoken to him about this ahead of time, he is absolutely right. | did
not do that but | did mention it to the Board President as it was happening and not prior to it happening but as it was
happening this time around.
So for those that feel that | did not go and talk to them, | will publicly be on the record to apologize but | will not apologize
for putting this forward. | think it’s good. | think it’s important and | think based on what’s happening in Concord it is time.
It is scary times and | don't want to lose any more control. | want to get whatever control we can get. Someone said to
me, “Well why don't we get control of the school district, that’s run by Concord”. That’s run by Concord for the entire State
and not just Nashua. This one is just Nashua. While | cannot disagree with many of my colleagues on the other side, | do
think it’s time. I’m sorry that they felt like they didn’t have a voice on it.
| do want to make one comment also about the concerns of that committee. | love the group that’s on there. | think that
they’re all very wise, reasonable people but | was concerned Madam President with your comment about the other side. |
know you didn’t mean that. | think you just meant that you wanted each of the wards to hear both sides of the story. | just
want to make sure that that was clarified because | know you would not say the other side meaning that you were just
going to be talking about one side. | know you would be talking about both sides. | just want the public to understand
that.
Board of Aldermen 08-10-2021 Page 24
President Wilshire
You're talking about sides of the issue and not...
Alderman Klee
Right both sides of the issue. So yes | appreciate that. | think that I’ve had more than enough time to speak and thank
you so much.
Alderman O’Brien
Thank you Madam President. | just want to basically say that I’m very proud to be a member of this Board of Aldermen.
I’ve heard many complex issues that were basically discussed over the years and | think yes several different things did
go before the voters on referendum. One of the bills | just recently wrote too was to have the public take a look again at
the gambling issue that’s coming up on the referendum. Why did | do that is because sometimes even the voters get
confused. We've kind of felt | think collectively because it passed unanimously to put it back onto the ballot. So to say
who is really the smarter or anything, nobody really is. We really all, including the public or us on the Board of Aldermen,
try to do our best. In Nashua, our governing body is one that we vet the issues. Completely — pro and con and put it right
on the table. We’re not like another smaller town where we’ve got to have warrant articles or anything else like that. |
don’t know what it’s called and SB2 town or something like that but to come out. We're capable and we're duly authorized
to have those discussions. | think we could have had this discussion.
My main complaint with this why I’m not going to support it. It’s not that I’m against the idea 100 percent. | have my own
ideas but the problem | have | have not avenue to bring my ideas forward. Not to have a discussion and | personally do
feel a little bit slighted and as and alderman-at-large, | kind of think it’s kind of taken away a little bit of my authority or my
capabilities of being on the Board. Madam President | would like to thank you. | think you did well to come up in the bi-
partisan or in trying to olive branch between the different fractions that do exist on this particular matter to bring up a
commission because we have heard from the Police Chief and he says all he wants is the same thing that | want — an
opportunity to come and that we completely vet the issue. It’s not going to happen it seems and I’m not counting the
noses but it seems like it’s going to go right to the ballot. Fine. I’m sure the people can make a decision but | feel slighted
that | was elected to make the hard decisions and I’m not willing to pass that along. I'll stand here in the trenches and
have those debates and make the tough decisions what | feel is best for the citizens of Nashua. Therefore | am not going
to support this. Thank you Madam President.
President Wilshire
Thank you. Anyone else?
Alderman Jette
Thank you Madam President. This has been a difficult issue. When | first heard about it, | thought it sounded like a good
idea. | know | was liaison to the Police Commission not the past two years but the two years before that. | attended all of
their meetings. | can’t say that I’ve found fault in anything the Commission was doing. | thought the Police Department
was well run and | couldn't find any great fault. | did think that this is true of all of many of commissions the people who
end up serving whether it’s the Commissioners, or the liaisons, we get to know the Police Department, the police officers.
They earn our respect and we appreciate them. It’s easy for us to become not so much overseers of the — in this case the
Police Department. The same could be said about the Fire Department. We tend to become less overseers and more
cheerleaders or advocates for them because we get to know them, and we respect them, and we end up advocating for
them.
| think the Police Commissioners from my observation it could have been more — held a tighter rein over them financially
but they say that they did. There’s a lot that goes on that’s not seen. We aldermen have the ultimate control over the
finances. We voted to give the police a couple of different unions increases in pay and then this past budget thing when
the Mayor vetoed the budget and we overrode his veto and supported the Police Department and the Fire Department.
So we Aldermen you have that final say, that final control and we can’t blame it on them if we think they’re spending too
much money. It’s up to us to say put a limit on it and the majority of us didn’t.
The other thing is the Fire Commission is elected by the people. That is the ultimate local control. They, too, | think
become more advocates for the Fire Department and provide less oversight. When | think of the Fire Commissioners |
don’t know about you but | don’t know how many times we voted for the Fire Commission without really having a very
good knowledge of who they are, who the people who are running. So I’m not sure that electing the Commissioners is
Board of Aldermen 08-10-2021 Page 25
such a good idea. The thing that I’ve noticed in this debate is that people have become very passionate about it — the
Police Department, the Police Commissioners, the people who support them. Some of our fellow Aldermen have become
very passionate in their defense of the Police Department and their insistence that there is no problem and that nothing
should be changed.
It’s been pointed out that in the past there was a situation where aldermen were being investigated and they tried to end
the investigation. Chief Hefferan spoke to us in detail about that. | have a lot of respect for Chief Hefferan. I’ve thought
about that case and that case needed up not being a local prosecution. It was the FBI who prosecuted that case. It was
a federal indictment and the three aldermen involved ended up pleading guilty and being convicted by a federal court. So
| think the answer to avoid the number, it’s against the law to try to influence a police investigation. If one of us tries to do
that, the police ought to report us and charge us with a crime. If the police feel that local control is going to subject them
to interference, that’s one answer. The other answer is they can refer these investigations when it involves local people.
They can refer it to the Attorney General’s office. Let the Attorney General’s office do the investigation. Remove it
completely from local interference.
Something that the police talked to me about that did resonate with me is the idea that their recruitment, their selection of
officers, their compensation of officers, the promotions, all of that sort of thing is governed by the Commission. Of course,
they’ve got the collective bargaining agreement that they have to abide by. They say if there’s too much — if the Aldermen
are selecting the Commissioners that they feel that there’d be interference there and they may have a point there. There
are pros and cons to this.
The things | want to make clear is whichever side you're on, please it does not serve you well to try to read the minds of
the people on the other side. People who disagree with you to accuse them of having nefarious motivations does not
serve you well. | hope that both sides — in the future we all remember that. Each of us has opinions and we’re all trying to
do what’s best for the city. Accusing the Mayor of proposing legislation without going through the aldermen first, well
that’s the way it works. The Charter says the Mayor has the right to propose legislation just as we aldermen have the
right to propose legislation. To say that the citizens are going behind the backs of the aldermen by starting a petition
drive, well that’s their right. That’s in the Charter. The voters have the right to make a petition. The idea that it hasn’t
been vetted enough, | understand that argument but how much time do you think it needs. This started in May. We've
had May, June, July, August. We're going to have September, October. Both sides can make their arguments to the
voters. | don’t know why it would take a year or two to educate the public about this issue.
As you can tell, I’m struggling with this. | see both sides. | have trouble taking this away from the voters saying...when |
hear an alderman say he hasn't had a chance to really do his job, well this has been hanging around since May. Any of
us and some of you did — some of you who are not on the committee went to the committee meeting. We all had the
opportunity to go to the committee and express our opinions. If we feel that this may be a good idea but it could be
improved, we could have gone to the committee with our ideas and suggested amendments. It seemed like the people
who didn't think this was a good idea were intent on not letting it proceed. | guess I’m coming down on the feeling that the
voters ought to have the opportunity to express their opinion. If they vote this down, there will be other opportunities if we
want change propose something that may be better in the future. We're not saying that this should pass by putting it on
the ballot or just allowing the voters and both sides, | think, will have ample opportunity to make their arguments directly to
the voters and let the voters vote in November. | guess I’ve decided to allow this to go ahead. Thank you. Thank you for
letting me think out loud once again.
Alderwoman Kelly
Thank you. Can you hear me? Sorry.
President Wilshire
Yes
Alderwoman Kelly
I’m going to say things that | have said both times in Personnel meetings and I'll try to keep it brief because | think many
of the aldermen have already done a good job of explaining the pros and cons here. | was an initial co-sponsor to this bill.
It made sense to me on the surface that local control we appoint everything else and getting into a community
conversation with the people who are involved from the Police Department, to neighbors, all of those things it became
clear very quickly that everybody has different opinions on this and so a number of people on the Board have alluded to
the fact that we talked about having a working study group that would look at this and really have this whole conversation
regardless of how this vote goes down tonight, regardless of whether it goes on the ballot by citizen petition which is their
Board of Aldermen 08-10-2021 Page 26
right. | believe strongly that this discussion is still worth having and I’m looking forward to really examining this and having
a true vetted community conversation on this because | think it’s a good time to have it. This could be the right piece of
decision. There could be an even better solution that we can come to by bringing all parties to the table. So I’ve endorsed
city commission that has been put together has a great group of people from lots of different areas not just Nashua, not
just the police, and everyone who is on there we’ve done a good job of balancing the conversation so it’s not going to be
one sided. I’m looking forward to having that conversation regardless of how anyone around this horseshoe votes and
whether or not it goes on the ballot.
| can tell passion has been used. | think there’s a lot of passion around this on every front. | always appreciate that
passion because that means that as a community we’re listening, and thinking critically, and coming to the table, and
asking tough questions of each other. I’m looking forward a lively conversation in the work study group. Thank you.
Alderman Clemons
Thank you Madam President. | just wanted to state for the record that | haven’t heard an alderman express that they
weren't open to exploring change. | believe that that was insinuated by some previous speakers. That’s not the case. |
think that it’s disingenuous to say such a thing particularly when the group who is wanting the study group has been vocal
in saying let’s put the brakes on this and look at what all of our options are. | think that’s just an important clarification to
get out there. Thank you.
Alderman Dowd
Yeah | just wanted to explain that when | gave my initial comments and actually wasn’t my intent at that time to table. It
was also never my intent to stop discussion on the motion. It was my intent to allow the committee time to meet, and
discuss, and come back to us with a report before we took final action on this. The only way | saw at the time was to table
it until the committee meets and not indefinitely and not until the end of the year. The committee should start meeting and
come to some conclusions.
If we pass this tonight, the committee is going to come up with a recommendation but the horse is out of the barn and too
late. If we really want to do this right, we should give the commission a chance to meet and come back with
recommendations. | just don’t think the current wording going on the ballot, which | believe is pretty close to the wording
on the private — it’s exactly the same, does not give the people voting on it enough information to make an informed
choice. It’s somebody saying we have to do this and people are following along with that. There have been a lot of things
pointed out to me in the last few days that there are things that the commission needs to talk about and formulate some
things together like | know that a couple of the aldermen anyway have had trying to put in legislation for changes to this. |
think the only way you can get to the correct approach to make changes is to have the commission meet, get all the facts
together, and make an informed decision. The only way | saw how to do that was to table. | didn’t want to table it and
actually stop conversation on this. | was hoping that we would allow the commission the chance to meet and come back
with positive recommendations. | think that’s the fair and honest way to go to just throw this on the ballot to me is not the
way we should be doing things.
Alderman Lopez
Yeah | just kind of was conscious of the fact that the public watching and maybe members of the audience aren’t fully
aware of the communication that we’re all talking about with the commission. So | mean in a summary without naming all
the people who are appointed to it because there’s a good spread in my opinion of citizens that will be able to discuss it
from the voters perspective, the commission that — and maybe | should just let you speak to it Madam President would be
a better idea since you’re the one who created the commission.
President Wilshire
Right and | did that so that all sides of the issue could be heard so that the people that don’t watch our meetings or don't
get a knock on their door that they get all the information they need and that’s basically what I’m hoping this commission
can do is to put out there all the options, all the sides of this. If it goes on the ballot, why does it need to go on the ballot
right now? What's the hurry? What's the rush? If it’s a good idea now why won't it be in two years when it comes up to
the full municipal election? If it’s a good idea, it will stand up.
Alderman Lopez
So just to articulate to the public, the work group being started is to be chaired by Alderman Kelly. Alderman Dowd would
participate and the Police would have also representation. Then all of there’s 6 or 7 private citizens. So this would not be
Board of Aldermen 08-10-2021 Page 27
a work group that is specifically representing one side. It is well rounded. It has the legislative support and authority to
enact changes and it has civilian representation and it has input from Police. So that was what my intention was just to
point out to people who we might have been kind of talking around it because we have the document right in front of us.
It’s going to be attached to tonight’s minutes but there is a substantive step being taken to further explore this.
Just speaking to my motion at the beginning, | think we’re going to go around in circles with this at the Aldermen if we go
anywhere at all which is why | wanted to move for final passage because that’s my opinion is that we should move it
forward. I’ve been reading the room. | think | have a different calculus than Alderman O’Brien and | don’t necessarily
think that my position or opinions are going to be representative of the whole Board. | still think we accomplished
something by having a vote and making it clear where everybody stands on it. | think if we try adding more amendments
at this point, it’s likely not going to go on the ballot anyway because it would be such a change that it has to be run
through all the processes again and we wouldn't have declared that it was necessary and followed that step back in May if
we hadn’t known there was going to be a time crunch and we hadn't known that there were procedures to follow.
| don’t think that creating an amendment on the fly is particularly a good idea with something this important. | also don't
think that just leaving it on the table and floating is going to do anything other than keep it as a discussion item that can't
be solved. | think we should move this more to that work group’s field and let them explore things with the knowledge that
probably inevitably anything that we’re doing as aldermen is going to require new legislation and it’s going to have to
happen in the next year because | don’t think we’d be able to affect any change usefully in a timeframe that would allow to
go on the ballot. That was my thinking.
Alderman Cleaver
Thank you Madam President. | believe we’re over complicating this issue. | think it’s much more simple than we’re
making it out to be. Five commissioners and the local control is very clear. | think it’s ready to go on the ballot. | think
that the people should decide and | support this 100 percent. There’s a change that needs to be made. It’s archaic and
going back to the 1800s and it’s time for local control and we need more local control on every issue concerning the city.
I’m 100 percent for it. | think it’s time to vote on it. | think it’s time to put it on the ballot.
President Wilshire
Anyone else? Alderman Harriott-Gathright.
Alderman Harriott-Gathright
Wow this has been quite interesting experience here sitting on this Board particular with this. Most of you know, | have
great respect for Nashua Police and particularly for our Chief of Police. However, some of the things I’ve heard that came
from the Police Department as well as on this Board, | am truly shocked. | sat in on Alderman Caron’s meeting the other
night and really felt really horrible after hearing some of the comments that were made by people on this Board that | truly
respect but would have never thought things of that nature would come out of their mouth. | don’t want to repeat them.
You all know who said what on that meeting.
| take offense when people say that Aldermen or the Mayor is trying to derail things. | take offense when we're told we’re
not doing our job. | take offense when | know that people that I’ve spoken to and | don’t know if you’ve spoken to people
had no clue. They thought the Commissioners were city control. So | don’t know who you guys talked to or have spoken
with but | was really shocked to find out that so many people had no clue that the Commissioners were chosen out at the
State. So sometimes we’re in a bubble. We don’t really get to a lot of people that you really, really do need to get to.
I'll also say that no matter where | go, people are concerned. Most of the concern that | was hearing came about the
Police Department because for whatever reasons and things that were said, letters were written, people were just
shocked that they thought that the police had something to hide. For me that knows pretty much about the Police
Department, | didn’t feel as though they had anything to hide but | felt that how they approached the situation just made it
worse to be honest with you and then how some of us approached the situation have made it worse. | personally like the
idea of a Commission of five. | like the fact that local control and as some of my colleagues said are in the State House
as well, we talk constantly. We vote constantly about bringing things back to Nashua. So when we got so many people
that | care about disagree and I’m saying to myself you’re disagreeing because you're afraid that someone is going to ask
you to do something that you should be saying no to but you think that because who the person is you don’t have a
choice. | have a problem and if you’re in that position, you shouldn't be in that position. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong. | don’t
care who you are and you should be able to stand up and say absolutely not, you’re wrong. We're not going to do it.
So to say that that’s not likely what would happen, | have a problem with that. Those that know, | had the conversation.
Board of Aldermen 08-10-2021 Page 28
You know exactly what I’m talking about because I’ve had many conversations with the Police Department and with other
board members as well. So | just feel as though | don’t mind disagreeing with people and having fuss out — Chief
Carignan and | do it all the time. We come back and love. You know what | mean. There’s a difference but when | keep
hearing these innuendos coming at this Board, it really bothers me tremendously. So | do believe that it needs to go to
the ballot and | do believe that Nashua residents should make that choice. | do believe that we still have time and people
have been meeting with the Police Department, and meeting with other members of the Board | believe — | can’t say that
honestly but | think, other members of the community that jumped in to help out. A lot of people have been talking so
don’t say that people don’t know what this is about because they truly do. They do know without a doubt in my mind. For
you to say we need more time, fine. Take the time. You have til November or whenever the election is — take the time to
explain whatever you want to explain to whomever. Everybody can have a voice but to stop the voice, | have a problem.
For that, | am going to be voting to move this forward.
President Wilshire
Anyone else? Part of the problem | see is that we talk about people had no clue that these Commissioners were
appointed by the Governor. Well if people didn’t know that, | think the purpose of putting together a work study group is to
get all that information out there so people can make informed decisions. It’s just really no reason to rush this. It’s going
to be the lowest turnout of all elections. Typically is a very low turnout. | would ask the City Clerk but I’d hate to put her
on the spot. The percentage of people that come out to vote in a mid-term is very low. | don’t think that’s giving the
citizens enough voice. | think it should wait until the next municipal election after we’ve had an opportunity to speak to the
community about their Police Commission and their Police Department.
Alderwoman Lu
| just wanted to mention that the work study group could also — and I’m sure this is part of the plan but | just wanted to say
it or get it on record — explore ways we’ve tried in the past to make the Commission more diversified, ways that haven't
worked, and discuss ways that could work. So the idea was brought up initially with some particular other than the local
control, it was also discussed the diversity piece. That could be explored as part of the work group. Thank you.
President Wilshire
Further discussion? Seeing none, the motion before us by Alderman Lopez is for final passage of Resolution R-21-143.
Seeing no further discussion, will the Clerk please call the roll.
A viva voce roll call was taken which resulted as follows:
Yea: Alderman Klee, Alderman Lopez, Alderman Jette, Alderman Schmidt,
Alderman Cleaver, Alderwoman Harriott-Gathright 6
Nay: Alderman O’Brien, Alderwoman Kelly, Alderman Dowd, Alderman Caron,
Alderman Clemons, Alderman Tencza, Alderwoman Lu, Alderman Wilshire 8
MOTION FAILED
Alderwoman Kelly
Can | move to table at this point? (inaudible)
President Wilshire
Yes.
MOTION BY ALDERWOMAN KELLY TO TABLE RESOLUTION R-21-143
A viva voce roll call was taken which resulted as follows:
Yea: Alderman O’Brien, Alderman Klee, Alderwoman Kelly, Alderman Dowd,
Alderman Caron, Alderman Clemons, Alderman Lopez, Alderman Tencza,
Alderman Jette, Alderman Schmidt, Alderman Cleaver,
Alderwoman Harriott-Gathright, Alderman Wilshire 13
Board of Aldermen 08-10-2021 Page 29
Nay: Alderwoman Lu 1
MOTION CARRIED
R-21-152
Endorsers: Alderman Thomas Lopez
Alderman Linda Harriott-Gathright
PROPOSING AN AMENDMENT TO THE CITY CHARTER RELATIVE TO ADDING TWO ADDITIONAL MEMBERS
TO THE BOARD OF HEALTH
Given its second reading;
ON THE QUESTION
Alderman Lopez
So just before | make a motion, can | ask Attorney Bolton to clarify? If | motion for indefinite postpone does it stop any
other aldermen from commenting if they wanted to?
Attorney Steve Bolton
No.
Alderman Lopez
Okay. Just making sure.
MOTION BY ALDERMAN LOPEZ FOR INDEFINITE POSTPONEMENT, BY ROLL CALL
ON THE QUESTION
Alderman Lopez
So out of deference to what Alderman Clemons pointed out earlier, | didn’t want to either a) make a long comment and
then just move to table, or b) table right out of the gate and then not explain why. My intention in proposing a Charter
amendment for the Board of Health was it is a similarly aged institution. It provides for three physicians to oversee the
health matters of Nashua and I’m very much oversimplifying that so | apologize to the Board. My intention was to add two
more members to it to expand its quorum. This would allow members to have a little bit freer conversation. It would allow
some redundancy if someone couldn’t make it and it would allow them to still have a quorum and proceed with the
meeting. | saw advantages to it but | didn’t really account for 1) the timeframe for presenting it to the Board itself in
having it proposed to me and moving it forward onto the Board of Aldermen. | managed to completely coincide with them
going on break for the summer so | wasn't able to present it to them first or in a detailed matter before it went to
Personnel/Administrative Affairs.
So | want to thank Alderman Caron for working with me to invite them to the Personnel/Administrative Affairs. The way
the timing would have worked out is there regular meeting is tomorrow So if she hadn’t been so accommodating, we
wouldn't have had the conversation before it went back tonight the full Board. If it didn’t come back tonight, then it
wouldn't have made a difference because it’s not going to get on the ballot. We had a health discussion
Personnel/Administrative Affairs. | kind of wanted to stick to it because the idea of five versus three as a dynamic is
something I’m very familiar with. | see most boards operating on that level. Because of the advantages it offers, that
made sense to me.
Expanding it to include members who might represent the psychology field as well, | added an addition physician or
individual with doctorate level psychology. | thought that was relevant to today’s Nashua. We just literally had a Special
Board of Aldermen meeting right before this about being a recovery friendly workplace. Issues of recover and substance
misuse are increasingly falling under the umbrella of public health. There are major issues that affect all levels of Nashua
life. Then we also have issues that are not quite so well understood or discussed. We have a lot of people who are
committing suicide and we have a lot of people who are experiencing the trauma that comes from that. We have a lot of
people who just went through a life shattering or life changing experience in 2020 where suddenly a lot of the behaviors
and patterns that they were used to were pulled away from them and they were instead replaced with a period of
uncertainty, and competing narratives, and a lot of stress. Again, it made a lot of sense to me to introduce somebody at
least a possibility that a specialist in the field of psychiatry would potentially be useful.
Board of Aldermen 08-10-2021 Page 30
Then the last element of this amendment would have let voters decide whether they wanted somebody with a public
health background who didn’t work for the city to be a member. | think my intentions speak for themselves. | wasn't
trying to replace any existing members. | was trying to expand the board. | was trying to improve its ability to train new
members and manager the crisis that we’re experiencing. | also think my timing was pretty awful because not only did |
plow into a similar amendment with the Police Commissioner being highly contentious but the Board of Health is not the
Police Department. They’re not as big. They don't get uniforms to clearly identify themselves to the public and give them
the credibility that comes from centuries of law enforcement. Instead, they have to focus on their decisions having the
wait themselves of credibility. Because of that and because at the emergency meeting that we had last week, it was
impression that people who are seeking to undermine the credibility of the Board of Health were at the same time trying to
use this as a wedge. | don’t think this is a good time to mess with it.
| agree with the comments that they’ve made that they have an effective board right now. | think the timing would be
unfortunate were the amendment to proceed to the votes because then they would have to if they continue to disagree,
they’d have to approach voters and that’s not a fair position to put them in in order to make their case. If it did pass
through the referendum, then that means that we would have to be looking at a change in a dynamic in the middle of
winter when we’re likely still going to be dealing with after effects of COVID-19. Hopefully after effects. So for those
reasons, | want to thank everybody who supported me in terms of moving this forward but | think the best thing at this
point is to indefinitely postpone it and then take it up in a future term where | am able to engage the Board of Health right
out of the gate and make sure that they fully support an amendment moving forward.
President Wilshire
The motion before us is for indefinite postponement. Is there further discussion on the Motion? Will the Clerk please call
the roll.
A viva voce roll call was taken which resulted as follows:
Yea: Alderman O’Brien, Alderman Klee, Alderwoman Kelly, Alderman Dowd,
Alderman Caron, Alderman Clemons, Alderman Lopez, Alderman Tencza,
Alderwoman Lu, Alderman Jette, Alderman Schmidt, Alderman Cleaver,
Alderwoman Harriott-Gathright, Alderman Wilshire 14
Nay: 0
MOTION CARRIED
Resolution R-21-152 declared indefinitely postponed.
R-21-155
Endorsers: Mayor Jim Donchess
Alderman-at-Large Michael B. O’Brien, Sr.
Alderman Patricia Klee
Alderman Richard A. Dowd
Alderman-at-Large Shoshanna Kelly
RELATIVE TO THE TRANSFER OF $75,000 FROM DEPARTMENT 194 “CONTINGENCY”, ACCOUNT 70100
“GENERAL CONTINGENCY” TO DEPARTMENT 198 “INTERFUND TRANSFERS”, ACCOUNT 89725
“TRANSFER TO CITY RETIREMENT TRUST FUND”
Given its second reading;
MOTION BY ALDERMAN DOWD FOR FINAL PASSAGE OF R-21-155, BY ROLL CALL
ON THE QUESTION
Alderman Dowd
Yeah this is just a normal transfer of funds that we do. We put money in contingency and this particular one has to cover
retirement that’s come up recently. It is a normal transaction of city government.
