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Board of Aldermen 12-08-2020 Page 24

Alderman Tencza

Ok, | guess | would be opposed to trying to negotiate directly with the firefighters on this issue. As was
brought up in public comment, they have been negotiating since August of 2019 on this issue. The
firefighters have clearly put a lot of thought into this because they came up with a plan that they felt worked
best for their union and quite frankly if their union, well — you know our City is the great City that it is
because of the employees that we have working for us. The firefighters as was mentioned earlier in the
past have had difficulties with concessions that they’ve made with regard to healthcare. This is not
something that was overlooked | think by either side. It’s something that they negotiated for, | think it would
be unfair to them and | think that they would absolutely go back and have to re-think the entire contract for
a third time now, if we don’t override the Mayor's veto.

| understand the difficult position that the Mayor is in, trying to get all of — we’re all in quite frankly because
any of the Collective Bargaining Agreements going forward are going to come before us for review. But
this contract, in particular, because it’s been so long because the firefighters and the Fire Commission have
put a lot of effort and thought into ways that they could try to help reduce healthcare costs while making
sure that the unique circumstances of the Fire Department are cared for and thought of through their
healthcare choices. | think we really owe it to them tonight to put this whole process to rest. Unfortunately
they are going to be back before us sooner rather than later because they are already into year 2 of this
contract. So the Fire Commission and the Firefighters will have to start negotiating again probably around
next year. This is something that can be corrected then, the same time that we will have to be looking at all
of the other Unions that are coming before us. So | ask that we please override this tonight and let’s move
forward and move on to the other business that we have to take care of as a City. Thank you.

President Wilshire

Alderman Lopez?

Alderman Lopez

| agree with most of what Alderman Tencza has said and | would just like to clarify to my fellow Aldermen, |
misinterpreted what the original motion so | voted exactly opposite of what | intended to. But the motion
passed and we are having a discussion so | am glad that we are doing that. | think that to Alderman
Tencza’s point, negotiations have dragged on. | think there is every opportunity for the City’s negotiating
team and the Mayor to make it clear what they were looking for. | think that negotiation is two way and two
sides and | believe the Fire Department has done what they can to try to accommodate what the City’s
needs are, in the context of what our current COVID-19 crisis is and in the context of what they need to do
for their firefighters. | think it’s important to remember, comments were made earlier in public comment
about taxpayers versus firefighters that firefighters are taxpayers, they are our constituents and they are
struggling with COVID-19 as much as anyone else is. We have a number of firefighters who are in isolation
because of COVID-19 because they face a higher level of exposure. This is a difficult time for many people
financially but it’s also a higher time of risk for many industries that don’t have any alternatives with regards
to working from home or taking other precautions.

You are a firefighter, you respond to the fire. You are responding to people who are in need of first aid.
You are responding to all manners of crisis and | think it’s important that we recognize that. So as was
pointed out earlier, this has dragged on to the point where we can include items of a bargaining point in our
next negotiation but | really think we need to move this forward and recognize what our firefighters have
done. | was opposed to it in their initial presentation because | was concerned about revenue generating
and how taxes were being spent. | have attended the Budget Meetings and | have been looking at how our
spending is taking place and if there is going to be savings, or if there are going to be cuts made for the, to
make sure that we don’t overload the taxpayer’s money; | don’t think it needs to come from the firefighters. |
think there are other areas we can look and | think it’s important that we do that.

Board of Aldermen 12-08-2020 Page 25

The firefighters have negotiated in good faith, the City has negotiated in good faith and | think it’s time that
we, as Aldermen, continue to do our jobs and uphold the decision that we’ve already made.

President Wilshire

Thank you Alderman Lopez. Alderman Cleaver.

Alderman Cleaver

Yes thank you. This is way past due and this is the second time, this is the second contract. In my mind is
not divisible it was negotiated as a package it should remain as a package. It has strong support from the
Board of Fire Commissioners, each member and strong support from the Union itself, of course. And |
think it has strong support from the Board of Aldermen, | hope. And it’s time to move it along and give them
what they deserve. So | strongly urge my fellow members to override this veto.

President Wilshire

Alderman Jette?

Alderman Jette

Thank you, Madam President. I’ve got a couple of things I'd like to talk about. First of all, Commissioner
Garant said some things about the Mayor and the Administration, the Finance Department, you know, that
the Mayor was misleading us. | see that Director Kleiner is on the line and she participated in that and |
would like to ask her to respond to what Commissioner Garant said.

President Wilshire

Director Kleiner do you wish to respond?

Kim Kleiner, Director of Administrative Services

Yes, Madam President. Thank you very much. Mayor Donchess, Cheryl Lindner, |, Attorney Clarke, did
attend a session with the Board of Fire Commissioners. The intent of that conversation was strictly to alert
the Fire Commission to our concerns about healthcare. Never during that conversation was there any
mention of giving any type of financial consideration for members switching to the high deductible health
plan. Back in March when the City looked at the cost and it was determined that we needed to start to
mitigate some of these costs, we developed with our consultants a very in-depth plan, looking across the
City, looking at all labor groups on how to do that. And clearly it was decided considering our consultant’s
advice to move forward with the redesign on the HMO. And that is the only financial considerations that the
City has looked at and it’s with very good reason. It is not the advice of our consultant to offer financial
considerations for the high deductible health plan.

President Wilshire
All set, Alderman Jette?
Alderman Jette

| have another comment. Commissioner Garant also called me out for saying that firefighters, that a new
firefighter right out of high school could start at $50,000.00 without any training and | did say that at the last
meeting. And he’s right, | was wrong when | said that. Alderman Klee said she thought that firefighters had
to be certified and so after the meeting | did look into that, | talked to Chief Rhodes and | found out that I’m
not sure about this, | don’t think it’s a State Law that firefighters have to be certified before they start
employment, but in fact in Nashua, Chief Rhodes told me that we don’t hire anyone who is less than a

Chairman Len Fournier - Superintendent Vice Chairman

NILES F. JENSEN JR. Mayor Donnalee Lozeau - Ex-Officio MICHAEL L. MCLAUGHLIN
Secretary 101 Kinsley Street Treasurer
MARVIS J. MELLEN Nashua, New Hampshire 03060 DAVID G. FREDETTE

Phone: (603) 594-3354 Fax: (603) 594-3418

March 8, 2016
Nashua Board of Alderman
Attn: Susan Lovering
City Hall
Nashua, NH 03060
Dear Susan,

Would you please schedule a Joint Convention with the Alderman to re-nominate Barbara Whitmore to a new five
year term as a Trustee of Woodiawn/Pinewood Cemeteries.

Thank You,
Len Fournier
Superintendent

Woodlawn/Pinewood Cemeteries

CC: Niles Jensen, Chairmen of Trustees

Incorporated 1895

Board of Aldermen 12-08-2020 Page 26

firefighter certified Il. So | was mistaken and | apologize for that. | said that based upon the appendix that
was attached to the CBA that shows grades of firefighter, you know starting at Grade 100 firefighter and
then firefighter certified number one goes to the 111 level and then firefighter certified number two is at the
200 level, | think, if | remember correctly.

So Chief Rhodes told me that we don’t hire anybody at less than a Firefighter Certified Il. So those first two
levels of pay on those schedules evidently are not applicable. They are not used. He told me that a
beginning firefighter has to be certified and at level II but they do start at the lowest grade so they start at
the lowest pay but after 9 months’ probation, they then go to Grade 221 which is the Certified II Level. So
they start a little less than $50,000.00 but after 9 months they jump up to if | read these schedules correctly,
$53,568.00 and that’s without considering any overtime. You know the statements that people make, I’ve
heard them from constituents and my fellow Aldermen who have the opinion that the firefighters deserve
every penny and that’s their opinion and | respect that.

As an Alderman, | am responsible to the taxpayers and | think, | agree that firefighters ought to be paid an
appropriate amount. But I’ve said ever since we started talking about these Collective Bargaining
Agreements that it looks to me like the Nashua Fire Department is among the best paid, if not the best paid
fire department in the area. So to think that our firefighters are not being paid fairly, that they are being
underpaid, as far as | can tell, that’s not true. And I’ve invited the Firefighters, I’ve invited the Fire
Commissioners to get in touch with me and show me that I’m wrong about that and no one has. | did ask
CFO Griffin you know what actually are we paying our people? And according to the information he
provided me, the lowest paid firefighter right now is getting around, including overtime is getting close to
$70,000.00 that’s the lowest man on the Fire Department. The highest and I’m not talking about the Chief
or the Deputy Chiefs, but the highest is $147,862. According to CFO Griffin the average firefighter and
these are not the Lieutenants or the Captains, the average firefighter is making $86,174.00. The average
Captain is making $119,921.00.

| don’t think we are underpaying our Firefighters, | believe we should keep up with the times, they are
certainly entitled to cost of living increases. But the cost of living increases have been averaging 2% or less
over the past 5 years. In this contract, in addition, you know this contract is paying over 10% over four
years so that’s 2 %2% average but something that | haven’t heard a lot of people talk about is built into the
Collective Bargaining Agreement, or in addition to the cost of living increases, are increases in the steps.
Adjustments to the steps — effective July 1* 2021 there’s a 3% increase to the steps. You know, these
steps are labeled 10 not 15 so people who have 10 to 14 years’ experience are going to get a 3% increase
in addition to the cost of living increase. And then all the steps above that get a 1% increase to make sure
that all the steps stay 1% above the lower step. So built into this thing are in addition to cost of living
increases, adjustments to the steps.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and | respect everybody else’s opinion, but as far as | can tell, our
firefighters are well paid, they deserve to keep up with the times, they deserve to get a cost of living
increase, but | don’t think we can afford these other increases and certainly for them to get in addition to all
of that, additional increases for converting to the high deductible plan, seems inappropriate. And I’ve heard
some people say that their HMO’s should not be taken away from them. | don’t think that any of these
proposals for any of these Unions are talking about taking the Point of Service Plans or the HMO plans.
There is some adjustment to it. But what the City is trying to do is incentivize people to convert to the high
deductible plan and that incentive is by paying them the increased amounts that Director Kleiner has
explained to us which goes into their health care savings plan. So | apologize for the length of my remarks,
| apologize to the people who disagree with me on this, you know, | respect your opinions but | am going to
vote to sustain the Mayor’s Veto.

President Wilshire

Alderman Tencza?

Board of Aldermen 12-08-2020 Page 27
Alderman Tencza

Madam President, just | guess a point of order, if we could — the Mayor’s Veto only pertains to the clause
regarding the healthcare. | don’t think it behooves any of us to relitigate this whole thing and talk about the
wages. | respect Alderman Jette’s opinion, he has stated it and | think we all understand it but going
forward | think it may make sense if we can focus debate on the issue of healthcare. Thank you.
President Wilshire

Thank you. Alderman Gathright?

Alderman Harriott-Gathright

| just want to say | thank former Mayor Davidson for being here and giving us a little history of the fire
department and the many contracts that have come before the City of Nashua even before our time,
because most of us are fairly new to the Board within the last four years anyway. | appreciate that and |
appreciate the conversation from Paul as well. | am going to vote for this contract. | do believe, not
necessarily that it is deserved, but | have seen and heard so many conversations where the contracts are
always failing, they are always behind 2, 3 years or something of that nature. That should never happen
especially if you are working with your Union Representative to help work those things out. And | did get an
opportunity to speak to Mr. Wholey for a while and | really appreciate the conversation that we had. And so
| am going to vote for the contract to undo the veto.

President Wilshire
Thank you. Anyone else? Alderman Dowd?
Alderman Dowd

Yes | just want to bring up a couple random points just for historical — the contract before this one that the
firemen signed up to, they took a health care concession and took 1 year of zero increases. And then the
City offered another large bargaining unit, something completely different and that’s why they are hesitant
to be the first one out of the shoot on this health plan. As was stated they will be probably committed to this
health plan on their next contract. This health plan change came well after the contract negotiations
started. So we are asking them to change course. Also, when they came before us the first time, we did
not approve the contract and the Budget Committee and the Board of Aldermen asked them to reduce the
impact to FY 19 and FY 20 or 20 and 21, because of the funding issue. They came before us after the first
year of the contract had already passed and we would have had to go find money to put back in that
budget. And there was a certain amount of money put forward for negotiations in this year’s budget and
the way the contract is written right now, those first two years of the contract aren’t increasing any
additional spending to the City, that money is in contingency; it’s already there.

And they did a good job in that. And when they did that, because | voted against it the first time, |
committed that, OK, you’ve done what we’ve asked you to do and | said I’d support them. And | am not
going to change my word on that, | am going to support them. | would prefer at some point if they want to
do a sidebar later and switch the wording and take the health plan, possibly after one of the large Unions
already signs up, and | think we can save some money. °22 is going to be the bad year and it’s driven
predominately by the State no matter what anybody says. If you look at the numbers it is the State that is
spending money and putting it down on property taxes. And all the cities and towns, especially in the
southern tier have all said that lately. The municipal association is also saying, hey you can’t keep doing
that.

Board of Aldermen 12-08-2020 Page 28

I’m not going to into each one of them because | know that in ’22 the School numbers will change because
with a vaccine now, all of those students will be back. The Free & Reduced Lunch will go up again and we
won't get hit with a $6 million dollar issue. The 16% in the next year of the cost of this contract is the
additional monies demanded by the State for pensions. People might not know it, the State Pension Plan
and reiterate the State Pension Plan pays Zero towards pensions including their own people. They started
at paying 35% and they worked their way down and they went to Zero. This $4 million dollar increase is
because they don’t feel they are going to earn the interest that they had been earning in the past. | find that
hard to believe with the stock market being higher than it has ever been. But | think at some point we need
to have those people back in front of us from the Pension Board and find out what’s going on. But | am not
going to hold the State sending all these bills down to us against the firefighters. They risk their lives on a
daily basis, so do the Police. But the firemen probably have more fires than drastic police action and the
chemicals that get used in fires and the things that are burning in the fires are health hazards for them. And
we always remarked from 911 the firemen are the people that are running into the fire building, not out.

So if you average the last 8 years including this contract and the one before, the actual raises are
reasonable for the work that they do and the professionalism that they show and the numbers of lives that
they have saved. They also stepped to plate on Safe Stations and got nothing for it and they were dealing
with people that had drug problems, we didn’t pay them anything for that. And they weren’t asking for it,
but it’s something to consider when they are negotiating their new contract. So | am going to vote to
override the veto. | hope that at some point before the next contract, we can get them on board with the
regular health plan. But we are in a box right now and that’s where we are at. Thank you.

President Wilshire

Alderwoman Lu?

Alderwoman Lu

Thank you. | just want to point out that | believe that Mayor Donchess is pointing out an obviously really
poor policy in the increasing, giving a step increase or whatever you want to call it if the Department has
70% buy in. He’s exactly right, we are incentivizing them to get 70% buy in for 2 years so that they can
enjoy a 1% raise in salary and pension until they retire. It's not good for the City, it is very poor finance for
the City of Nashua. | also don’t think it is good policy because your choice among the three choices, the
health care choices is very personal. It’s very individual, it depends on, a high deductible plan is not for
everyone. It’s not a good choice for everyone. But you are going to have peers putting pressure among
themselves to get that percentage in there and that’s not what we want to do with people making their
healthcare choices. So | think it’s financially and of policy a really bad element of this contract. And |
support the Mayor for that reason. Thank you.

President Wilshire

Further discussion on this motion to override the Mayor’s Veto? Yes?

Alderman Schmidt

Madam President, may I? Thank you.

President Wilshire

Oh Alderman Schmidt, | wasn’t sure who it was.

Board of Aldermen 12-08-2020 Page 29
Alderman Schmidt
At this point, people are asking me to agree with the Mayor, many people asking me to agree with the
Mayor, not to not pay a raise to these wonderful people who take care of us, they saved my neighbor’s life
one day. | was here, | watched it, it was amazing. That’s not the point. The point is healthcare, healthcare
insurance. | would ask if we can table this and | can have two weeks to see what can | understand in this.
So | move to table.
MOTION BY ALDERMAN SCHMIDT TO TABLE BY ROLL CALL
A viva voce roll call was taken which resulted as follows:
Yea: Alderwoman Lu, Alderman Jette, Alderman Schmidt 3
Nay: Alderwoman Kelly, Alderman Dowd, Alderman Caron,

Alderman Clemons, Alderman Lopez, Alderman Tencza,

Alderman Laws, Alderman Cleaver,

Alderwoman Harriott-Gathright, Alderman Wilshire 10
Abstain: Alderman O’Brien 1
MOTION FAILED
President Wilshire

And that Motion fails. The Motion before us is to override the Mayor's veto as amended. Further
discussion on that motion? Alderman Dowd?

Alderman Dowd

Yes, | just want to make sure that the motion is articulated and is clear as to what we are voting on so that
everybody is clear on which way to go.

President Wilshire

OK, so a yes vote would be to override the Mayor’s Veto, a no vote would be to go along with the Mayor’s
Veto.

Alderman Dowd
Thank you.
President Wilshire

Anything further? Seeing none, would the Clerk please call the roll? Sorry excuse me, | didn’t see you
Alderman Kelly.

Alderwoman Kelly

That’s OK, sorry about that. I'll keep it brief, | just wanted to say that | am going to vote to override the
Mayor's Veto here. | think that the firefighters have negotiated in good faith multiple times. We have asked
them to go back and look at it the last time in terms of affordability and they did that and | think we need to
move this forward.

Board of Aldermen 12-08-2020 Page 30

| also had a conversation with President Wholey and not only are our actions important from a perspective
of the City and being fiscally responsible but also morale for our firefighters, letting them know that we do
support the good work that they do and that their Union is doing appropriate negotiating on their behalf. So
it’s time to move this forward and | know a lot of people have said the same things but | just wanted to
make sure | weighed in. Thank you.

President Wilshire

Thank you. Alderman Clemons?

Alderman Clemons

| just want to reiterate the same message that Alderwoman Kelly just expressed, | agree 100%.

President Wilshire

As do |. Anything further? Seeing none, would the Clerk please call the roll?

A viva voce roll call was taken which resulted as follows:

Yea: Alderwoman Kelly, Alderman Dowd, Alderman Caron,

Alderman Clemons, Alderman Lopez, Alderman Tencza,
Alderman Laws, Alderman Cleaver,

Alderwoman Harriott-Gathright, Alderman Wilshire 10
Nay: Alderwoman Lu, Alderman Jette, Alderman Schmidt 3
Abstain: Alderman O’Brien 1

MOTION CARRIED
Mayor's Veto of R-20-088 as amended declared overridden.
Resolution R-20-088, as Amended declared duly adopted.

UNFINISHED BUSINESS — ORDINANCES - None

NEW BUSINESS — RESOLUTIONS

R-20-100
Endorser: Mayor Jim Donchess
Alderman Richard A. Dowd
Alderman-at-Large Michael B. O’Brien, Sr.
RELATIVE TO THE RESCINDING OF AUTHORIZED UNISSUED DEBT
Given its first reading; assigned to the BUDGET REVIEW COMMITTEE by President Wilshire

R-20-101
Endorser: Mayor Jim Donchess
Alderman Linda Harriott-Gathright
Alderman Skip Cleaver
AUTHORIZING RELEASE OF CERTAIN PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY EASEMENTS
Given its first reading; assigned to the COMMITTEE ON INFRASTRUCTURE by President Wilshire

Board of Aldermen 12-08-2020 Page 31

NEW BUSINESS — ORDINANCES

0-20-40
Endorser: Mayor Jim Donchess
INCREASING SEWER USE FEES RATES AND CHARGES

Given its first reading; assigned to the PERSONNEL/ADMINISTRATIVE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE and the
NASHUA BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS by President Wilshire

0-20-41
Endorser: Mayor Jim Donchess
AMENDING THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER ORDINANCE

Given its first reading; assigned to the PERSONNEL/ADMINISTRATIVE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE by
President Wilshire

PERIOD FOR GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT

Beth Scaer I'd like to comment, it’s Beth Scaer.
President Wilshire

OK.

Beth Scaer_ Hi, | just wanted to ...

President Wilshire

Can we address for the record, please?

Beth Scaer Yeah 111 East Hobart Street.
President Wilshire

Thank you.

Beth Scaer And | just wanted to talk again about my Save Women’s Sports Flag. Alderman Jan Schmidt
and Mayor Donchess had it removed from the Citizen Flag Pole. And | wanted to remind everyone that this is
an important issue that everyone should understand that women’s sports are being taken away, men are
being allowed to compete. The Mayor and Alderman Schmidt support this effort to take away women’s
sports. When the Olympics come next year you will see it first hand, up close, much bigger, stronger men
competing in Women’s Sports, taking away their awards. And you can visit save women’s sports . com to
learn more. Thank you.

President Wilshire
Thank you. Anyone else wishing to give public comment? Name and address for the record, please?

Gia Bonilla 5 Hopi Drive and | am also the Director of Events and Partnerships at Boston Billiard Club and
Casino. So | appreciate everybody’s time. | actually want to speak on something not on your Agenda today
but | think it might come up soon. Tomorrow the Board of Health will have a meeting about a possible curfew.
It is very concerning to us as a business to all of Nashua’s Hospitality Businesses; | think it would be very
detrimental to infiltrate a curfew. | think more of our local businesses will close. | think to try to handle it ona
city level opposed to state, | mean people just drive to Manchester. We will lose a lot of business, we are a
charitable gaming operation as well so we have organizations like the Nashua Fire Relief, the Family Promise
of Greater Nashua, the Nashua Police Patrolmen is coming up to benefit this month.

Board of Aldermen 12-08-2020 Page 32

Unfortunately these people aren’t going to come and play with us knowing that there’s this deadline, they are
going to go Salem, they are going to go to Manchester. | even think our local residents would go elsewhere
and still come back home.

So | struggle to see how it would slow the spread of the Coronavirus. We have done everything possible at
our own location to do the right thing, where we are limiting people at the bar. We hire details, we implement
all of these things, | am ordering thousands upon thousands of dollars of PPP equipment that we supply to
everybody. And it just seems like maybe some places aren’t doing that extreme, | just don’t want to be
lumped into that same group. This is my livelihood, I’ve worked at Boston Billiard Club & Casino for 16 years.
| started as a server, | worked my way up, it is a family run business and | feel for all the other businesses, |
see them closing and | just think it would be a huge mistake and you know it would hurt our neighbors, our
local businesses, and | just hope that we will have the Aldermen support regardless of the recommendation of
the Nashua Board of Health in this matter.

| also want to commend the Aldermen on what you guys decided to do when we reopened in expanding
outdoor dining, | mean you saved a lot of local businesses. | just would hate to see it be for nothing if they
close because it’s winter and the times are difficult. | mean | understand holding people accountable and
everybody needs to abide by the restrictions and uphold the rules, | just hate to lump everybody into one lump
together and all of us suffer, never mind the fact that you know for us this would hurt our local non-profits, it
would hurt us. | estimate most restaurants and bars from research have 15% of their sales are after 9:00 p.m.
and that might not seem like a big number. However in this climate that we live in now, that is life or death.
And so | am really, really hoping that this doesn’t come to be, this doesn’t come to fruition and that we have a
curfew as the only place in New Hampshire.

President Wilshire
Thank you. Anyone else want to give public comment? Chief Rhodes?
Chief Rhodes

Good Evening, thank you Madam President and thank you to the Honorable Board. | just want to express
thanks from Chief Buxton and | for your support of your firefighters. Because they are your firefighters and
they do an incredible job for our community every day and knowing that you have their backs is going to goa
long way. So again, | just wanted to thank you very much for your support.

President Wilshire

Anyone else want to give public comment? OK, seeing none, Remarks by Members of the Board?
REMARKS BY THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN

Alderman Schmidt

Thank you, Madam President. | just wanted to thank everybody. | wanted to thank the 10 people that voted

to override the veto. | think it was the right thing to do. | wish there was a better way to do it but | am so
glad that the contract has gone through for the Fire Department. Thank you very much.

Alderman Lopez

Yeah | just wanted to remind the public that we are far from out of the woods with COVID-19. While we do
have a vaccine that is being approved by the FDA and is in the process of being reviewed for longer term
effects, it is not going to stop people from spreading COVID-19. It’s not going to be immediately available,
we do not have any COVID-19 vaccine in Nashua, New Hampshire right now and we will not have them for
Christmas, we will not have them for New Years.